Benzos early stage benzo WD vs opioid WD

[cdin]

This thread makes me curious as I've been taking 10mg of valium a night for around 4 months (at first it was like 7.5, then 10, now I'm up to 15mg). I don't want to stay on it for too much longer but it's been very helpful. I wonder if CT'ing it would be particularly uncomfortable.

start tapering now. do not CT this. do a rapid taper and watch for dissociation/shaking/electric zap feelings. go slower or seek a GP if you do get those symptoms.

 

[OCD2DOC]

Aw thanks mang
When did you start to come off xan and are you tapering? Maybe switch to a longer half life (depending how hooked you are)

I started tapering when I started detoxing off suboxone about 6 weeks ago and jumped two weeks later. It's been like 25-26 days since I took my last benzo. ( I'm not trying to count days anymore)
I have a recent thread about it ( benzo wd after suboxone wd...). Whole story is there, and I continue to update for the poor bastards going through this in the future.

Also what is black rock club and why do i want in

'Bad Day At Black Rock' is the title of an old Spencer Tracy post-war Western.
Apologies, I should have used capital and/or italics.
Basically I was just saying it sounds like you are in for a rough go.

Tbf i have like some mad anhedonia i just feel like, i actually feel like im going to wake up any second and she's still alive and it was just a dream like I can hear and feel and see her if i shut my eyes or i'm actually in some glitch world that isn't real or being punished by god. A psychologist said i had a dissassociative disorder but I made sure it never got onto my NHS medical records.

I have OCD and I pretty much set around in psychosis for the first 1-2 weeks of my Xanax wd ( at least in the daytime anyways). It was really hard on me cause I am used to ritualistic behavior. I don't know how you DD will manifest during the wd, but a lot of the symptoms are similar to what you can experience on benzo wds so things might ramp up a bit. The pregabalin should help with that I would think. If nothing else by knocking the psychosis down a few pegs.

but I'm on day 6 1/2 no benzo (after years of on off sporadic use, two seizures, ive had clonazepam, clonazolam, diazepam, nitrazepam (my fave), temazepam, alprazolam, and etizolam) - was taking like 60mg valium a day since january - this was a change from clonazepam i'd been taking with alprazolam at the same time, i decided it's best i j ust use diazepam, I bougt a dosset box and had a taper schedule but a single bad dream kind of ruined it; but I got down to 20mg, sometiems fluctuating up to 30mg when i felt particularly bad. I feel bad all the time and honestly I think it's like the only thing to fear is fear its self (and seizures lmao) (but i am just trying to conveyt the very true and very uncozy psychological aspect of benzo withdrawl, uncozy.

I was on the xanax for 3 years, and this last year it really turned on me.
Sounds like the valium may have done the same to you.
If you stay on benzos long enough it's not a matter of if , it's when they are going to either turn on you with vicious sides and/or stop working for you.
I was fortunate to have both happen at the same time8)
I hear you on the seizures, tho. I didn't get the gaba until I believe 3rd day of wds, and boy was it better late than never.

you know I had a really goodvibe indian taxi driver take me to the dentist just now (ive been awake for like 36hrs and taken pregaba-gaba-hey (it does help, very underused drug, best anti-depressant ive had takes the edge off a wee bit) but anyway we were talking about a museum and we said we both went there as kids and he started talking about the type of strawberry tart and cup of tea he'd get and i was like man that's so cozy i like empire biscuits and then when i said i was goin to the dentist my left side teeth hurt he was like "don't worry mate i've done plenty of ecstasy" and he played psychedelic rock and we chatted about psychedelics and conciousness and his grocery business he has with his wife
<

I've had to go to a few appointments during all this hell.The thing with Dr. appointments is I won't miss one when I have some sort of nagging ailment. This definitely helps me get out when I would otherwise might not have not moved from the couch in the daytime.
The days I did I actually felt better.
It really does help to get out and try to trick yourself into believing you aren't a basket case.

Again, good luck to you, my friend. You have the pregabalin so you started this thing off better than me. Just be sure not to forget to take the training wheels off at some point.
I've read some horror stories of people getting hooked on the pregabalin.
If you use it responsibly and wean off you should have any issues.
Take care!

 

[OCD2DOC]

It's not the best sleeping pill tbh, I don't mean in terms of its efficacy in sedating people I just mean due to its long half life and shit.

You'll be ok, don't increase your dose please. I don't know why you take it but, well i'd be repeating myself - just have in your sights coming off of it. And leaving it in the past.

^ This.
From what you wrote it sounds like you have never had to deal with any benzo wds of note, BourbonMac. If at all possible, I can assure you will want to keep it that way. Any free rides benzos give isn't for long.
Personally, and with the benefit of hindsight, I would be aiming for a break at the minimum.

 

[BourbonMac]

start tapering now. do not CT this. do a rapid taper and watch for dissociation/shaking/electric zap feelings. go slower or seek a GP if you do get those symptoms.

Really from only taking that much? I do happen to also take gabapentin and that would likely help with weening. I won't CT, but I will go down to 2mg pills when I feel my mental and physical state is good enough. I've had a lot of issues on both fronts this year.

 

[Frazzled1990]

The withdrawal from opioids is generally linear and doesn't pose much of a danger. The withdrawal tends to peak around 72 hours, then things gradually improve over time.

There's nothing linear about Benzo withdrawal however. All sorts of symptoms come and go at random intervals. You get waves and windows. A wave can last for several months in the early stages of withdrawal, then subside almost completely for several months, only to come back again for another several months... etc. Some people have symptoms that return after 2-3 years of being symptom free. Then of course there's the risk of Psychosis and Grand Mal Seizures in the early stages of the withdrawal.

As bad as opioid withdrawal can feel. It's honestly child's play by comparison.

 

[Frazzled1990]

This thread makes me curious as I've been taking 10mg of valium a night for around 4 months (at first it was like 7.5, then 10, now I'm up to 15mg). I don't want to stay on it for too much longer but it's been very helpful. I wonder if CT'ing it would be particularly uncomfortable.

CT'ing wouldn't simply be uncomfortable, it would be dangerous. You can't take that much every day for 4 months, then just simply stop. You should do a 1 month taper at the very least.

 

[BourbonMac]

I feel like this really isn't that much though, and as mentioned I do have gabapentin. I will taper either way though, because I do feel like I've become dependent on them in a merely ritualistic way, so I will be honest with my doctor since I really don't want to be on them. But given some of the G.I issues I've had this year that valium helped, I'd probably have died of malnutrition without it. I still have issues with delayed digestion and we're not sure why.

 

[bongbing]

I feel like this really isn't that much though, and as mentioned I do have gabapentin. I will taper either way though, because I do feel like I've become dependent on them in a merely ritualistic way, so I will be honest with my doctor since I really don't want to be on them. But given some of the G.I issues I've had this year that valium helped, I'd probably have died of malnutrition without it. I still have issues with delayed digestion and we're not sure why.

Let us know how it goes & just remember that anxiety is to be expected especially in us who are anxious already. I hope it goes well m8 stay strong

 

[OCD2DOC]

I feel like this really isn't that much though, and as mentioned I do have gabapentin. I will taper either way though, because I do feel like I've become dependent on them in a merely ritualistic way, so I will be honest with my doctor since I really don't want to be on them. But given some of the G.I issues I've had this year that valium helped, I'd probably have died of malnutrition without it. I still have issues with delayed digestion and we're not sure why.

Tapering is the probably the wisest thing you may ever do even though you may not necessarily have the benefit of hindsight to know how wise it is.
You may not be to the point of full blown addiction, but I can promise you if you continue on even the amount your doing ( not saying you're going to) you will end up addicted in short order.
I've read countless (hundreds) of stories about benzo addiction/wds, so I can say with the upmost confidence having experience and research on my side.

I am currently living what Frazzled1990 just iterated.
Benzo wds are super strange, man. To say they aren't linear is an understatement.
Just when I thought I might be seeing a bit of improvement, in some ways it's been like I am starting all over again with novel side effects being introduced.
Whatever benefits I got from benzos I am paying back with interest. There truly is no free ride.

Without experiencing them, I'm not sure one can fully imagine how ridiculously sucky it is to be in benzo wds for almost a month ( that's as far as I have got anyways) and feel like there is no hope in sight for them to end. I shudder to think this may go on for months.
(Taking even a 5% risk of having to deal with them is just not worth it,
that's my experience/opinion anyways.)

That's the thing with benzo wds, it takes that progressive and organic hope of getting better away from you.
That hope/feeling of improvement is something you can depend on in opiate wds to a lot of times get you through. It's just not there with benzo wds. You have to artificially manufacture your hope. You have to keep telling yourself it will end at some point even if you at times don't believe it. That, and focus on the days or times of the day when wds are milder. For me it is the later part of the afternoon and evenings ( I do get hit late sometimes, tho)

srry to ramble on, but I just want you to understand what you are very likely signing up for if you did unfortunately get yourself addicted to benzos. A deal with the devil really isn't a far off analogy, and we all know the devil gets his dues.


If I had to pick one to go through between opiate and benzo wds it would be opioid wd.
Opioid wds are probably physically more intense ( although that is debatable), but you know how the end game is going to go.
That and you don't have the oscillating psychosis.

I'm sorry about you stomach issues. I have had my own stomach issues and I know how frustrating it can be to not be able to find out what's causing your issues.
Benzos can help with acute conditions, but the trick is to not use them in a manner that you become addicted. This is a trick I'm not sure very many can pull off ( for sure not someone with an addictive personality)

And lastly, if you do ever have to quit taking the benzos for whatever reason I can almost guarantee your stomach issues are going to be worse.
Good luck and I really hope you and your doctor can get to the root of your stomach problems.

 

[BourbonMac]

Oh I'm for sure addicted, I just don't find them very recreational and never have a desire to take more than 15mg. It can't really get worse than it already is now. The issue is, when do I pull the plug, or when do I feel my mental state is good enough.

I'm starting to use cannabis again and find it so much better (if I only puff a little lol). It was easy for me to get anxiety from it, but if I pull my vape of northern lights for 5 seconds I'm zen every time. Unfortunately strain effects do matter for me a lot unlike some people, so I can't always get amazing strains like this

Cannabis has always been my "anchor" addiction. The one I'm not that concerned with. I will likely smoke weed until I die. As long as I can get a little high at the end of every day or every other day, I'm golden really. I was smoking pretty heavily before I developed severe sinus issues that I'm getting surgery on in 2 weeks. I'm re-evaluating my consumption from here on out because THC can very much be used for anxiety when consumed responsibly. I was just loading giant bong backs with kief and either getting too high or not very high at all. And it was costing a lot. This N.L vape pen I have will probably last me months at this rate, 1 pull is all I need.

I wasn't able to vape this without getting headaches similar to smoking before, but I started to about 10 days ago and haven't had anything like that happen. Flonase has definitely helped with inflammation over time, but I need a maxillary astronomy to clear out my sinuses

 

[Xorkoth]

Really from only taking that much? I do happen to also take gabapentin and that would likely help with weening. I won't CT, but I will go down to 2mg pills when I feel my mental and physical state is good enough. I've had a lot of issues on both fronts this year.

I mean, man, 4 months of benzos every night. I would expect you to have withdrawals. You can't take benzos that much consistently.

It's possible you'll be fine, but don't assume you will, have a backup plan so you can taper if you need to. And I would stop right now.

Though you're right, gabapentin does help with it, as long as the withdrawals are minor.

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah unfortunately it's just been the worst year of my life mental health and physical health wise. I probably wouldn't be alive if I haven't been taking valium. I will get off of it soon, but I know the adjustment period might be weird.

I'm gonna go on a TCA pretty soon. I was prescribed flexeril the other day because I started on Prozac and it's making me clench my jaw badly. In retrospect I think all the SSRI/SNRIs I tried did. It works really well, and it even helps with G.I symptoms like valium does. If a TCA like amiltryptamine is similar, I could be in good shape. Otherwise flexeril and I get along well. It doesn't make me horribly groggy like most people. Flexeril is a TCA derivative apparently, it's got some overlapping effects

 

[OCD2DOC]

Yeah unfortunately it's just been the worst year of my life mental health and physical health wise. I probably wouldn't be alive if I haven't been taking valium. I will get off of it soon, but I know the adjustment period might be weird.

I'm gonna go on a TCA pretty soon. I was prescribed flexeril the other day because I started on Prozac and it's making me clench my jaw badly. In retrospect I think all the SSRI/SNRIs I tried did. It works really well, and it even helps with G.I symptoms like valium does. If a TCA like amiltryptamine is similar, I could be in good shape. Otherwise flexeril and I get along well. It doesn't make me horribly groggy like most people. Flexeril is a TCA derivative apparently, it's got some overlapping effects

I have been prescribed flexeril and amitriptyline. The flexeril for muscle spasm and amitriptyline for pulsatile tinnitus that happens sporadically in one ear ( both issues started after I started xanax). I never took either long enough to really experience any real benefit. It seemed like tizanidine (Zanaflex) helped me more with the weird calf spasm I have in one leg. My left leg will go on a crazy spell where it will fire all day.
Absolutely relentless when it starts up, and painful like a mild CharIey horse. Bothered me for a whole year off and on and then went away only to come back about 2 weeks off the xanax. Came back with a vengeance too, along with burning sensation in my feet.
I am seeing a neurologist soon. Only took them better part of a year after an MRI to finally decide to connect me with one. It takes an act of congress these days to see a neurologist.

My bad, I'm supposed to be replying to your post not wining about my current health issues.
I'll save that for a weekly update on the thread I started last month.

I don't exactly remember the details, about it but I remember reading that using Flexeril and amitriptyline together can potentially cause serotonin syndrome. I also read that taking flexeril is supposed to only be short term ( 2-3 weeks) and there's not real support that it is effective long term.
May be worth investigating.

Cheers and hope this next year is better for you and all of us

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah my GP advised me to stop flexeril now. But now I'm conflicted because it says TCAs slow gastric motility and that's been a problem for me for months now. Food doesn't digest well basically and I get constipated without taking miralax and drinking tons of water every day. I really hope it won't cause an issue because it sounds like amiltriptamine could be very promising

 

[bongbing]

Yeah my GP advised me to stop flexeril now. But now I'm conflicted because it says TCAs slow gastric motility and that's been a problem for me for months now. Food doesn't digest well basically and I get constipated without taking miralax and drinking tons of water every day. I really hope it won't cause an issue because it sounds like amiltriptamine could be very promising

Well it's only for the time-being BorBonMac til you get over the benzo bump so at least this way one foot can go after the other in terms of your progress and try to also get as good of a sleep routine as you can and exercise yadda yadda, i'm going to start running once i move and start my new job.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

To give an update. I'm one month into methadone kick and 2 weeks no valium. I have some PAWS where the main annoying symptom is a wired caffienated feeling (lump in the throat and jaw clenching).

I attribute this caffeine feeling to my opioid dependency completely but worry I may have developed a mild valium dependency. Although I took valium last night after 2 weeks....the caffeine feeling didn't dissapate...so I would conclude that is is fully due to opioid PAWS and I had no benzo dependency.

I really like valium for my pain issue because it flares for a few days then I'm fine. With opioids I would get dependent again after just a few days but I feel like the valium can be taken without dependency forming as easily.

But if I totally come out of opioid use and only apply benzos to my kindition...I will be using more benzos then so I am quite worried about falling into benzo dependency

 

[Conky]

To give an update. I'm one month into methadone kick and 2 weeks no valium. I have some PAWS where the main annoying symptom is a wired caffienated feeling (lump in the throat and jaw clenching).

I attribute this caffeine feeling to my opioid dependency completely but worry I may have developed a mild valium dependency. Although I took valium last night after 2 weeks....the caffeine feeling didn't dissapate...so I would conclude that is is fully due to opioid PAWS and I had no benzo dependency.

I really like valium for my pain issue because it flares for a few days then I'm fine. With opioids I would get dependent again after just a few days but I feel like the valium can be taken without dependency forming as easily.

But if I totally come out of opioid use and only apply benzos to my kindition...I will be using more benzos then so I am quite worried about falling into benzo dependency

Benzo withdrawal is notorious for making you feel extremely stimulated and not in a good way

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Benzo withdrawal is notorious for making you feel extremely stimulated and not in a good way

And mild benzo withdrawal would be a mild stimulation like I described right?

The thing is a benzo didn't remove this feeling for me last night when I took 20 mg Valium after 2 weeks off the valium. So I have to conclude it's opioid caused. I felt the valium make me drowsy but I still felt caffienated like that and not the "releif" that opioids instantly give

Although the caffeine feeling seems to be much less today (18 hours after 20 mg valium).

I know this caffeine feeling very well from my many opioid PAWS in the past and it feels exactly the same....I'm just trying to ascertain if any of it is being caused by benzos this time around because it's my first time using benzos semi regularly and stopping

 

[Conky]

And mild benzo withdrawal would be a mild stimulation like I described right?

The thing is a benzo didn't remove this feeling for me last night when I took 20 mg Valium after 2 weeks off the valium. So I have to conclude it's opioid caused. I felt the valium make me drowsy but I still felt caffienated like that and not the "releif" that opioids instantly give

Although the caffeine feeling seems to be much less today (18 hours after 20 mg valium).

I know this caffeine feeling very well from my many opioid PAWS in the past and it feels exactly the same....I'm just trying to ascertain if any of it is being caused by benzos this time around because it's my first time using benzos semi regularly and stopping

Yeah

Mine was pretty severe and I remained awake for days despite consuming massive amounts of alcohol

In your case it could be a bit of both as opioids and benzo WD both cause insomnia

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Yeah

Mine was pretty severe and I remained awake for days despite consuming massive amounts of alcohol

In your case it could be a bit of both as opioids and benzo WD both cause insomnia

I didn't have insomnia after the first week off methadone. After that Falling asleep was easy with heavy thc edibles despite the caffienated feeling persisting.