Bupe I need help with quitting bupe

[No_more_evry_monday]

Also im stacking up on benzos for 2 weeks of heavy usage to help.. can i add gabapentin after 2 weeks of benzo use or is it some type of stronger benzo working on same receptors ?

 

[axe battler]

Hmm no gabapentin is quite different from benzos, so it wouldn't be as bad as using benzos for 4 weeks. You should stick to fairly small doses of gabapentin though, just incase there is some kind of crossover. Also pregabalin is superior to gaba, especially for opiate withdrawal.

 

[No_more_evry_monday]

Hmm no gabapentin is quite different from benzos, so it wouldn't be as bad as using benzos for 4 weeks. You should stick to fairly small doses of gabapentin though, just incase there is some kind of crossover. Also pregabalin is superior to gaba, especially for opiate withdrawal.

So i can use pregabalin for first week and then go with valium and xanax for 2 or 3 weeks without going in benzo wd

Maybe add seruquel for 4th week

 

[axe battler]

Yeah that sounds good as long as you haven't been addicted and physically dependant on benzos before. And I'd stick with 2 weeks for the benzos. Sounds perfect that! Only thing I'd add is some loperamide with the pregabalin for the first week, but not much. Hopefully your rattle will be relatively pain free.

 

[axe battler]

Oh and you should taper your buoe dose to less than 0.25mg if you can, as this will massively lessen and shorten the withdrawal symptoms. Good luck!

 

[No_more_evry_monday]

Oh and you should taper your buoe dose to less than 0.25mg if you can, as this will massively lessen and shorten the withdrawal symptoms. Good luck!

Already working on it , took 2 pills (8mg) and gave rest to my mother ;p ty for info ,much love

 

[FlyFree247365]

Tell me you dont study pharmacology without telling me...oh, and...sir, your ego is getting in my face..can you..idk, go sit somewhere further away?


So, let's put our egos in their seats please, and have a real educational lesson on how neuropharmacology works.


Partial agonists/full agonists/antagonists..

It all means 'something' right? But, what are the differences? Well, let me PROPERLY explain.


A partial agonist binds the same way as a full agonist/antagonist does. Where the difference is, is wherein a partial agonist will only cause a 'positive' signalling response to the next neuron to a certain extent, before the physiological response does not increase any more.

A full agonist, on the flipside, has no ceiling effect and you may increase your dose to achieve the same effects almost indefinitely.


Regardless, they both attach to the same receptor, and cause a 'positive' signal response.

HOWEVER, (and this is where you need to pay attention) there is something in pharmacology that is called an ec50 and ecMAX. There are also Ki binding values that gives value to substances based on their binding AFFINITY. What this means is, because suboxone has such a high binding affinity for opioid receptors, it likes to fill in every single opioid receptor thats available to it. This makes it effective at mitigating withdrawals in extremely low doses, regardless of what drug you are withdrawing from. It will only get you so high (up to 32mg at once, or 4mg over time), but this is when suboxone fulfills its Ki binding affinity to its fullest.

If you still cant understand how you're wrong, then...I guess you just like to be right

Someone feelings hurt lmfao i dont give a fuck about none that all . Methadone is the best medication out for fighting opiate addiction. Been on and off both for over a decade now overdoses , jails , prison , rehab once i finally wanted to stay clean I made it back to a Methadone clinic thank God if you where and IV heroin & Fentanyl user and Suboxone works for you then your a rare breed yes I've got clean from fentanyl 30 days cold turkey then started Subutex it kept me straight for few months but thats it always and if u dont take sub for 24 hours u can then get high wayyy easier than 24 hours without Methadone dose still almost impossible if on a stable dose so addicts like myself i see subs may work for someone addicted to popping hydrocodone light pain killers as far as a iv heroin or Fentanyl especially is just toooo strong bupe just isn't strong enough. I wannna stayy clean this round so assuring that with a Methadone program is key 🗝 i have had 24 months sobriety with Methadone in past before being stubborn and stupid jumped off my 135mg dose after 25 months do to extreme unfortunate condition and it was in my early 20s i was not mature enough unfortunately but now i am a man not a kid and don't mean any harm or disrespect either i hope we all can beat our addictions NO MATTER WHAT MEDICATION OR HOW WE DO IT AS LONG AS WE RECOVER WISH YOU THE BEST SORRY FOR COMING OFF HARSH AT 1ST I TRULY MEAN NO DISRESPECT AND WISH YOU BEST FOR REAL

 

[Xorkoth]

He was just trying to say that bupe saturates your receptors above 2mg or so (depending on tolerance). yeah it's a partial agonist, but it will not allow either more bupe, or any other opioid through to the receptors above that level (it won't even let methadone through). How strong a drug is as an agonist is separate from its affinity at the receptor. That's why bupe is such an unusual drug.... it's pretty weak as far as how high it gets you, but it's stronger than almost everything - even fentanyl and even naloxone (narcan) - at actually occupying those receptors. So it makes a really good maintenance drug in the sense that you can't get high on anything else if you tried. But not such a great one in the sense that you won't feel satisfied, which is why for many people it doesn't work that well, because they just stop taking it, so that they can go back to actually feeling good on something else.

Contrast that with methadone... methadone is a very strong full agonist, and will actually get you high and make you feel satisfied. That said, you can still overdose if you take enough of heroin or fentayl or whatever on top if it, unlike suboxone, which just totally blocks everything.

 

[Keif' Richards]

So i can use pregabalin for first week and then go with valium and xanax for 2 or 3 weeks without going in benzo wd

Maybe add seruquel for 4th week

This is pretty much how I would do it. I'm not totally familiar with your past experiences with Benzodiazepines or Gabapentinoids. The Kindling Effect is going to make it much more difficult to induct and withdraw in the way that you're describing, but if past dependency hasn't been an issue, you shouldn't have to worry about that.

Gabapentinoids are apparently different than Benzodiazepines. I've read conflicting literature on the subject, but at any rate, they are different, but I find it hard to believe that there is not some kind of crossover between Gabapentinoids and Benzodiazepines. My knowledge of pharmacology doesn't go beyond the same articles a lot of us have already read. I will say, I've never met a person who could treat their Benzodiazepine with Gabapentinoids and I've never met a person for whom a Benzodiazepine renders their Gabapentinoid withdrawal contained. Perhaps there is just the fact that we grow tolerant in a general way to sedation regardless of how that sedation is actually being influenced on a chemical level in the same way we can become more tolerant to fear or pain or whatever.

At any rate, I'm pretty confident personally in saying that a strategic approach like this is viable. I've done it myself. Use one substance for a week or two, then use another, then maybe use the other one again. The main point is that you're not going to catch a serious dependency to either of these by using them in these controlled episodic periods. You might experience some rebound effects, but nothing that would be considered terrible by anyone who has ever experienced withdrawal.

Gabapentinoids differ from Benzodiazepines in that tolerance seems to happen much more rapidly for many. I will say from experience that when I have used Gabapentinoids specifically for Opioid withdrawal, using at the dosages necessary to maintain sleep, keep food down etc. that the dosages escalate geometrically to the point that, by the fifth day of use, there is pretty much know quantity capable of give me the needed relief.

I've done this multiple times and this is what it looks like with Pregabalin which is usually equated to Gabapentin at a rate of 1:6 meaning 600mg Gabapentin for every 100mg Pregabalin although this varies from person to person.

First day: 600mg
Second day: 1200mg
3rd day: 2400mg
4th day: 4800mg
5th day: taking the rest of the bottle

Your experience might vary, but the fact is that for many, the beneficial effects of Gabapentinoids, especially in the high dosages needed to treat Opioid withdrawal, cause a very fast onset of tolerance. Use them wisely.

I'll add that I take 600mg Pregabalin per day to this day and I'm able to receive benefit from it taking occasional breaks.

 

[chicken hoagie]

This is pretty much how I would do it. I'm not totally familiar with your past experiences with Benzodiazepines or Gabapentinoids. The Kindling Effect is going to make it much more difficult to induct and withdraw in the way that you're describing, but if past dependency hasn't been an issue, you shouldn't have to worry about that.

Gabapentinoids are apparently different than Benzodiazepines. I've read conflicting literature on the subject, but at any rate, they are different, but I find it hard to believe that there is not some kind of crossover between Gabapentinoids and Benzodiazepines. My knowledge of pharmacology doesn't go beyond the same articles a lot of us have already read. I will say, I've never met a person who could treat their Benzodiazepine with Gabapentinoids and I've never met a person for whom a Benzodiazepine renders their Gabapentinoid withdrawal contained. Perhaps there is just the fact that we grow tolerant in a general way to sedation regardless of how that sedation is actually being influenced on a chemical level in the same way we can become more tolerant to fear or pain or whatever.

At any rate, I'm pretty confident personally in saying that a strategic approach like this is viable. I've done it myself. Use one substance for a week or two, then use another, then maybe use the other one again. The main point is that you're not going to catch a serious dependency to either of these by using them in these controlled episodic periods. You might experience some rebound effects, but nothing that would be considered terrible by anyone who has ever experienced withdrawal.

Gabapentinoids differ from Benzodiazepines in that tolerance seems to happen much more rapidly for many. I will say from experience that when I have used Gabapentinoids specifically for Opioid withdrawal, using at the dosages necessary to maintain sleep, keep food down etc. that the dosages escalate geometrically to the point that, by the fifth day of use, there is pretty much know quantity capable of give me the needed relief.

I've done this multiple times and this is what it looks like with Pregabalin which is usually equated to Gabapentin at a rate of 1:6 meaning 600mg Gabapentin for every 100mg Pregabalin although this varies from person to person.

First day: 600mg
Second day: 1200mg
3rd day: 2400mg
4th day: 4800mg
5th day: taking the rest of the bottle

Your experience might vary, but the fact is that for many, the beneficial effects of Gabapentinoids, especially in the high dosages needed to treat Opioid withdrawal, cause a very fast onset of tolerance. Use them wisely.

I'll add that I take 600mg Pregabalin per day to this day and I'm able to receive benefit from it taking occasional breaks.

Gabapentinoids act differently than benzodiazepines in brain receptor activity in that pentinoids affect calcium ion channels vs. benzos which attach to the subset benzo receptor mainly on GABA-A neurons. Gabapentinoids in higher doses or other analogues that resemble classic barbiturates more like GHB will bind to mainly GABA-B on the main receptor complex, but also GABA-A in very high doses..difference in affects being gabapentinoids and barbs are much more like being tipsy/drunk than on a benzo which is purely anxiolytic and calm.

 

[Xorkoth]

Gabapentinoids in higher doses or other analogues that resemble classic barbiturates more like GHB will bind to mainly GABA-B on the main receptor complex, but also GABA-A in very high doses..difference in affects being gabapentinoids and barbs are much more like being tipsy/drunk than on a benzo which is purely anxiolytic and calm.

I am not aware that any gabapentinoid except phenibut (and baclofen if you count it, but I don't as it is almost entirely a GABA_B agonist) will ever bind to GABA-B, let alone GABA-A (but phenibut is just as much a GABA_B agonist as it is a gabapentinoid, and it does indeed bind to GABA-A in very large doses). Gabapentin and pregabalin, as far as I know, work purely on calcium ion channels, at any dose. The only reason gabapentin is called gabapentin is because it is structurally related to the GABA molecule.

 

[Dropperneck]

The most realistic thing imo is to jump to Kratom, it’s way less toxic and harmful to the body over all. With a large tolerance to subs you won’t get a huge buzz off it, but it will help maintain

 

[chicken hoagie]

I am not aware that any gabapentinoid except phenibut (and baclofen if you count it, but I don't as it is almost entirely a GABA_B agonist) will ever bind to GABA-B, let alone GABA-A (but phenibut is just as much a GABA_B agonist as it is a gabapentinoid, and it does indeed bind to GABA-A in very large doses). Gabapentin and pregabalin, as far as I know, work purely on calcium ion channels, at any dose. The only reason gabapentin is called gabapentin is because it is structurally related to the GABA molecule.

My mistake. I forgot to mention that at regular doses it is a calcium ion channel blocker only. I have found mixed reports on pentinoids and barbs hitting main GABA receptor sites, so I picked data

 

[tarman]

Hey BUD Nopeee bad info subs don’t EVER FILL ALLL YOUR OPIATE RECEPTORS BUPRENORPHINE IS A PARTIAL OPIOID key word partial lmao it only hits some of them no matter how long you take it or how much now Methadone hits all receptors because its a full opioid saame as oxycodone , herion , morphine as examples… hey You learned something new today my guy thats always a plus I love to learn new things especially when It’s something I thought was a certain way and found out it’s different but didn’t mean no harm or to be rude litterally just wanted to point that out for you stay safe hope your doing good

Sorry, but you're confidently incorrect.

Partial agonist means that bupe partially activates the receptor. It has a high binding affinity, so it's much more sticky to the receptors than most other opioids. That is why, it can actually saturate your receptors, in doses of 16mg or more. The medical literature on this is quite clear.