Kratom Kratom strain types?

[RSin]

Hi everyone I posted a thread about how I am going to try taking Kratom to detox from Heroin. I got a couple replies saying I should maybe try White or Green vein. But I see they're many different types, can anyone give me any strain preferences and if possible let me know what it does for them. Thank you in advance.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @RSin, it's always great to see new faces around here. New experiences, new personalities.... all that stuff!

Here at Bluelight, we really strive to weed through the myth and conjecture to arrive at some kind of truth. Usually, we make it to the level of educated guesses and these are better than nothing for many to say the very least. I'm 30 and many of our users are between the ages of 20-40 as one might expect, but we're using drugs that have been used by our great-great grandfathers. Opioids like Morphine are of the best known and understood chemicals used by humans. It's been studied, re-engineered, studied some more. We can say the same for Cocaine and to a slightly lesser extent, stuff like Amphetamines which are essentially "half as old" by the standard of world history as stuff like Heroin and Cocaine.

Benzodiazepines have been prescribed as a safe, reliable alternative to sedatives like Barbiturates. I believe Chlordiazepoxide (Librium) was a late-sixties thing but they only started really gaining steam in the 70's, becoming more or less the mainstay by 1990 as Barbiturates are phased out saving for outlier cases. We are only now learning how truly destructive Benzodiazepines are following decades of people becoming addicted, dependent and insane.

Kratom (Mitragynine Speciosa) has no doubt been used since before ancient history, but as a pharmaceutical, it has no current applied use in any form of medicine, hence there is a dearth of information regarding its effects. Very basic facts about Kratom have only come down to us as of recent years, such as the fact that Mitragynine and its analogs are responsible for the majority of the action of the plant, anlagous to the Opium found in the Poppy.

It's my opinion that anyone's best bet for learning about and understanding Kratom is by studying Mitragynine in the same way we don't study Poppies here on Bluelight. Your next best bet will be consulting message boards like Reddit to find a reliable vendor based upon the potency of the product. It's my understanding that there shouldn't be a radical difference between strains for the purposes of mitigating withdrawal.

We're also happy to help you out with any other withdrawal stuff dude. We can't have a strain rating or anything like that here though. It's just not our place.

 

[RSin]

Hey @RSin, it's always great to see new faces around here. New experiences, new personalities.... all that stuff!

Here at Bluelight, we really strive to weed through the myth and conjecture to arrive at some kind of truth. Usually, we make it to the level of educated guesses and these are better than nothing for many to say the very least. I'm 30 and many of our users are between the ages of 20-40 as one might expect, but we're using drugs that have been used by our great-great grandfathers. Opioids like Morphine are of the best known and understood chemicals used by humans. It's been studied, re-engineered, studied some more. We can say the same for Cocaine and to a slightly lesser extent, stuff like Amphetamines which are essentially "half as old" by the standard of world history as stuff like Heroin and Cocaine.

Benzodiazepines have been prescribed as a safe, reliable alternative to sedatives like Barbiturates. I believe Chlordiazepoxide (Librium) was a late-sixties thing but they only started really gaining steam in the 70's, becoming more or less the mainstay by 1990 as Barbiturates are phased out saving for outlier cases. We are only now learning how truly destructive Benzodiazepines are following decades of people becoming addicted, dependent and insane.

Kratom (Mitragynine Speciosa) has no doubt been used since before ancient history, but as a pharmaceutical, it has no current applied use in any form of medicine, hence there is a dearth of information regarding its effects. Very basic facts about Kratom have only come down to us as of recent years, such as the fact that Mitragynine and its analogs are responsible for the majority of the action of the plant, anlagous to the Opium found in the Poppy.

It's my opinion that anyone's best bet for learning about and understanding Kratom is by studying Mitragynine in the same way we don't study Poppies here on Bluelight. Your next best bet will be consulting message boards like Reddit to find a reliable vendor based upon the potency of the product. It's my understanding that there shouldn't be a radical difference between strains for the purposes of mitigating withdrawal.

We're also happy to help you out with any other withdrawal stuff dude. We can't have a strain rating or anything like that here though. It's just not our place.

firstly I'd like to say love the name bro! Keith Richards is one of my fav guitarists ever!

Secondly: thank you for the informative information. I truly appreciate it.

And lastly: I'm not looking for a rating system or anything like that on kratom. I'm more so trying to inquire if anyone has used it for detox purpose and what kind they used strain and color. I been reading about different kinds all day and i thought some one might have personal experience that would help me figure out which im gonna go for so I'd like to know whar their experience was etc. I apologize if my post has some thing wrong with it. Thanks again for your reply to my post. If you by chance have any advice on detoxing from opiods that you'd like to share I would love to hear it.

 

[THCified]

There surely is sum extent of variety in different strains effects-wise, but it isn't something so remarkable I'd say you'll be definitely solely attracted to strain a. rather than just the b'ish-one - at least ime and opinion.

I, for myself, never had thought so during my time having experimented with Kratom (as a whole, as well as with different strains), but nowadays I'm retrospectively safe to say that i 'somehow' seem to have felt most attracted to the red-veined-varieties (Red Borneo specifically).

But on the other hand I do also remember that sum specific white-vein-strain, i.e. White-Vein-Thai, was also favored by myself, and it's based loosely on the actual true fact, the general consensus, that it wasn't as sedating as (said/sum) red varieties and more activating, as you might heard of morphine being more calm and serene, while hydromorphone/oxycodone are defo not to that extent.

It's just like 'they' say: 'red' tends to be generally somewhat more tranquilizing, while the 'white' is more on the activating side of the spectrum of effects, and the 'green' being more or less something 'in between'.

Ime it all depends on what you're looking for at that time, what your plans for the day are, how your mood is like - what you just crave for atm, u know?!

It's most definitely personal preference, but I've found Red Borneo just subjectively perfect overall, and the euphoria from it was, in short, absolutely lovely, and just as long-lasting as consistent. Very good stuff!

 

[Snafu in the Void]

@RSin I just want to add my anecdotal experience using kratom to detox.

For me it didn't matter which strain is used, they all have relatively similar amounts of mitragynine and opioid power. The main difference is that the stimulating strains are, well, more stimulating. This could be both a good or bad thing. However, both stimulating and relaxing strains will keep you awake for a few hours if used right before sleep time.

Unfortunately kratom isn't able to touch heroin withdrawal for the first 5 days or so. It's not like bupe. It might take the edge off a tiny bit, but in my experience it's best used after you get through the worst acute withdrawal. After 5-10 days kratom has saved me and helped me get back to normalcy. But everyone is different. That's just my experience. I typically used loperamide, got through the acute wds, and then kratom was always there for me after that.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Basically there are four types of strains, red, green, white and yellow. Red is what you want, it contains the most of these precious alkaloids you want (mitragynine and its 7-HO derivate). Green and white are weaker and thus more stimulating (Kratom is a coffee relative and contains similar adenosine reuptake inhibitors). Yellow is fermented, I don't know what this means in respect to the alkaloid content.

If you taper down from the H first, maybe with aid of pregabalin if you can get that, then kratom is well able to ease withdrawal even from 120mg morphine and thus also lower-ish doses of heroin, it also doesn't even need dosages so high, from 10g of red I nodded slightly besides skipping said morphine. Cross tolerance isn't complete so you want to get the max out of the first days on kratom, don't mix kratom and H (this combo gave me respiratory depression but to a point in time when I had no relevant tolerance). But of course the method @Negentropic suggests is another possibility. But maybe combine kratom and loperamide, and/or pregabalin. It's sad that so few doctors prescribe memantine (because it currently is only approved for Alzheimer's), it helps tremendously and doesn't prolong withdrawal like all opioids including kratom do.

 

[jasperkent]

Hi RSin!
I'm no expert on kratom but I can tell you my experience with it. About 2 years ago I used kratom to help me kick a fairly heavy oxycodone habit. I used Bali Red and Maeng Da Red. It helped A LOT. I experienced only very mild WD symptoms and I had no cravings for oxy whatsoever.
Since then I've used kratom daily for energy at work, and I've experimented with various strains, brands, places of origin, and mixes.
They are all pretty good. Kratom affects everyone differently, so you will need to use trial and error to find what works best for you.
I will warn you that kratom IS addictive and I am currently dependent on it. However, it's a lot cheaper than most opiate/opioid habits and the withdrawals are much milder.
Good luck to you and keep in touch!

 

[plumbus-nine]

These strains are heavily different in potency and alkaloid composition, despite somebody here (sekio) having analyzed some strains and said they all were pretty similar, just differing in potency but I'd say with the variety we have these days there are good and bad variants/batches, I'm not so confident that all vendors care to analyze every batch when it comes in so possibly they don't know themselves what they're shipping.

I found some strains to be dysphoric (probably pronounced antagonistic effects at D2 dopamine and 5HT2a serotonin, possibly also opioid) while the current Maeng Da and Borneo red vein I'm using are at least 2x the potency of gold Maeng Da. Gold vein is a new strain which is fermented (if I'm correct now) and as seen in tea, fermenting can lead to different active ingredients - but I found it to be pretty similar to red vein, just a bit less sedating.
They sent me a sample of white Maeng Da, which I tried today. It is definitely more stimulating than red vein.

Also even when kratom seems to contain adenosine antagonists much like caffeine, it's not the same with or without coffee, taking a cup of good coffee counters the tiredness from higher dosages (cause of high natural opioid tolerance I'm using double digit gram amounts, I find the usual dosage chart telling anything above 5-7g a heavy dose a bit understated but I know that other people actually get this potency so don't take my word about that).

Avoid extracts, the shop I'm currently using sells a 20x full spectrum extract (they don't say of which variant and so probably using the old or weak material) and I've tried it orally and intranasally and it is nowhere near 20x strength. For its price it's not worth it imo.
Also is toss & wash quite a bit more potent than tea, even when the material is 'extracted' into the tea more than once. With reduced stomach acid (omeprazole etc) the differences should be even greater. Didn't test that yet but it seems to be generally accepted that antacids potentiate kratom. Another interesting combo might be with low dose (50-75mg are enough) DXM, like it can be done with any opioid should this limit tolerance development.

Tolerance definitively develops quite fast also like many opioids but it is different from classical mu receptor opioids and not fully cross tolerant with such. This also affects withdrawal, which is only partially due to mu opioid receptors. Kratom works also on said D2/5ht2a but also adrenergic receptors, quite like clonidine which also needs to be tapered to avoid spikes in blood pressure and restlessness. I have tachycardia - resting bpm of 90-115) since some incident which probably was a slight heart attack (kids don't do darknet chems, but that's another story) and kratom controls it better than beta blockers do.
When I skip my dose of kratom, the first day is heavy tiredness like I know it from opioids but day 2 begins to be different, the 'physical' symptoms like diarrhea, nausea and vomiting lack completely while the mind part is a bit like mixed SSRI and opioid withdrawal. Never got real effects from tramadol so I can't compare but from the profile one would expect tramadol like withdrawal w/o the physical part - this possibly due to one alkaloid which actually blocks mu opioid instead of agonizing it.
Well, time will tell. Currently I feel like the kratom is worth it but I thought same about morphine/methadone and then they became depressants because they interfere/lower testosterone, which has a greatly underestimated role in well being of males and women will experience something similar I guess. Kratom also suppresses T production but much less so than opioid full agonists,

 

[Nas47]

Never ever head sex issues while on Kratom.The herb is precious.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

If your gonna try kratom for WD my suggestion would be to get an extract, your probably gonna need 400+ mg of the active chemical mitragnine, personally Iv had pretty amazing results with OPMS black extract pills

 

[Nas47]

Purchase one time some kind of extract-not worth the money.was not so much stronger,than regular powder.But for sure there is a strong potency resins.....but using them often your tolerance also speed up

 

[plumbus-nine]

Purchase one time some kind of extract-not worth the money.was not so much stronger,than regular powder.But for sure there is a strong potency resins.....but using them often your tolerance also speed up

Wonder how they did the black resin extract, it must've been some special technique as I never saw a similar product again (was 10 years ago). This one was so potent that I underestimated and overdosed, leading to the hardest nod I ever had...!
But normal extracts are waste of money.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

There surely is sum extent of variety in different strains effects-wise, but it isn't something so remarkable I'd say you'll be definitely solely attracted to strain a. rather than just the b'ish-one - at least ime and opinion.

I, for myself, never had thought so during my time having experimented with Kratom (as a whole, as well as with different strains), but nowadays I'm retrospectively safe to say that i 'somehow' seem to have felt most attracted to the red-veined-varieties (Red Borneo specifically).

But on the other hand I do also remember that sum specific white-vein-strain, i.e. White-Vein-Thai, was also favored by myself, and it's based loosely on the actual true fact, the general consensus, that it wasn't as sedating as (said/sum) red varieties and more activating, as you might heard of morphine being more calm and serene, while hydromorphone/oxycodone are defo not to that extent.

It's just like 'they' say: 'red' tends to be generally somewhat more tranquilizing, while the 'white' is more on the activating side of the spectrum of effects, and the 'green' being more or less something 'in between'.

Ime it all depends on what you're looking for at that time, what your plans for the day are, how your mood is like - what you just crave for atm, u know?!

It's most definitely personal preference, but I've found Red Borneo just subjectively perfect overall, and the euphoria from it was, in short, absolutely lovely, and just as long-lasting as consistent. Very good stuff!

This matches my own experience with Kratom.

Red Borneo, there is no Kratom grown on Bali. Just a marketing name. Was my main go to: its more sedative then the white variety. And green Malay on a close second position, or a combo of the two.

Maeng Da was imo a big disappointment. Never bought it again. like the white vein types. But I never tried white vain Thai. And never for WD's.

 

[plumbus-nine]

My current Maeng Da red is okay. Could be stronger but it's the strongest kratom I had so far. Guess different vendors have different policies about how good the stuff they're selling must be. NL smartshops sell expensive (20g costed more than I pay now for 100g) stuff which was mostly bunk. Maybe old, I don't know, or do different breeds of the kratom tree itself exist, like it is the case with kava kava where we have 'noble' varieties containing psychoactive ingredients and non-noble ones which don't and possibly are even toxic. Kratom similarly was in some rare cases accused of causing liver toxicity but as it's so widely used and the only problem people get is withdrawal I'd say I'm fairly confident that this isn't a common danger.

Wonder what strains are real and what ones are just PR. Read that some accuse some shops of dealing with kratom like they do with eggs in the EU - more demand for organic eggs? Label them as organic. Market satisfied but need cheap eggs? Label them as such.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

NL smartshops sell expensive (20g costed more than I pay now for 100g) stuff which was mostly bunk. Maybe old, I don't know, or do different breeds of the kratom tree itself exist, like it is the case with kava kava where we have 'noble' varieties containing psychoactive ingredients and non-noble ones which don't and possibly are even toxic. Kratom similarly was in some rare cases accused of causing liver toxicity but as it's so widely used and the only problem people get is withdrawal I'd say I'm fairly confident that this isn't a common danger.

Mine came directly from Indonesia. The only headshop i visit (also sells Cannabis) doesn't even have Kratom.

And Kava is even more illegal then Cannabis. Its strictly forbidden, not tolerated.

 

[plumbus-nine]

And Kava is even more illegal then Cannabis. Its strictly forbidden, not tolerated.

Which is weird as it only produces threshold effects when not extracted. The pharm corps did solid work in outlawing that unwanted competition to their benzos. Anecdotally was a good extract available at pharmacies until they messed it up and sold some liver toxic batches.

But Switzerland even banned kratom, it's ridiculous. Few people in this country actually know about it, so it's more a demonstration of failed drug laws than somebody actually trying to improve health.. oh yeah let's just take pharm opioids, or tolerate the pain because junkie,.

 

[izo]

I prefer red Thai, green indo is not nearly as good.

 

[RSin]

I would like to thank everyoje from the bottom of my heart for all your info I truly appreciate it. You guys rock. I am about to purchase a couple different strains and start my WDs I will let everyone know what I get and what happens with each strain/extract I try. Thank you all again so much. Love this forum.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Which is weird as it only produces threshold effects when not extracted. The pharm corps did solid work in outlawing that unwanted competition to their benzos. Anecdotally was a good extract available at pharmacies until they messed it up and sold some liver toxic batches.

But Switzerland even banned kratom, it's ridiculous. Few people in this country actually know about it, so it's more a demonstration of failed drug laws than somebody actually trying to improve health.. oh yeah let's just take pharm opioids, or tolerate the pain because junkie,.

My introduction too Opiod's, Kratom, was after an total restoration on my teeth was done. Which include removing as much Amalgaan as possible, fill cave-tie's and remove a cyst. The last two ones my previous dentist missed.

As on forehand i knew no adequate pain relief would be provided. I purchased 15 grams from a headshop. And that worked like a charm, as long as I stayed flat . Took half the recommended dose in applejuice. Very nice feeling, the general anestetic had allready worn off and it took the pain away or my mind of it. Still grateful till this day. You know next month I think i'm gonna buy some.

 

[RSin]

These strains are heavily different in potency and alkaloid composition, despite somebody here (sekio) having analyzed some strains and said they all were pretty similar, just differing in potency but I'd say with the variety we have these days there are good and bad variants/batches, I'm not so confident that all vendors care to analyze every batch when it comes in so possibly they don't know themselves what they're shipping.

I found some strains to be dysphoric (probably pronounced antagonistic effects at D2 dopamine and 5HT2a serotonin, possibly also opioid) while the current Maeng Da and Borneo red vein I'm using are at least 2x the potency of gold Maeng Da. Gold vein is a new strain which is fermented (if I'm correct now) and as seen in tea, fermenting can lead to different active ingredients - but I found it to be pretty similar to red vein, just a bit less sedating.
They sent me a sample of white Maeng Da, which I tried today. It is definitely more stimulating than red vein.

Also even when kratom seems to contain adenosine antagonists much like caffeine, it's not the same with or without coffee, taking a cup of good coffee counters the tiredness from higher dosages (cause of high natural opioid tolerance I'm using double digit gram amounts, I find the usual dosage chart telling anything above 5-7g a heavy dose a bit understated but I know that other people actually get this potency so don't take my word about that).

Avoid extracts, the shop I'm currently using sells a 20x full spectrum extract (they don't say of which variant and so probably using the old or weak material) and I've tried it orally and intranasally and it is nowhere near 20x strength. For its price it's not worth it imo.
Also is toss & wash quite a bit more potent than tea, even when the material is 'extracted' into the tea more than once. With reduced stomach acid (omeprazole etc) the differences should be even greater. Didn't test that yet but it seems to be generally accepted that antacids potentiate kratom. Another interesting combo might be with low dose (50-75mg are enough) DXM, like it can be done with any opioid should this limit tolerance development.

Tolerance definitively develops quite fast also like many opioids but it is different from classical mu receptor opioids and not fully cross tolerant with such. This also affects withdrawal, which is only partially due to mu opioid receptors. Kratom works also on said D2/5ht2a but also adrenergic receptors, quite like clonidine which also needs to be tapered to avoid spikes in blood pressure and restlessness. I have tachycardia - resting bpm of 90-115) since some incident which probably was a slight heart attack (kids don't do darknet chems, but that's another story) and kratom controls it better than beta blockers do.
When I skip my dose of kratom, the first day is heavy tiredness like I know it from opioids but day 2 begins to be different, the 'physical' symptoms like diarrhea, nausea and vomiting lack completely while the mind part is a bit like mixed SSRI and opioid withdrawal. Never got real effects from tramadol so I can't compare but from the profile one would expect tramadol like withdrawal w/o the physical part - this possibly due to one alkaloid which actually blocks mu opioid instead of agonizing it.
Well, time will tell. Currently I feel like the kratom is worth it but I thought same about morphine/methadone and then they became depressants because they interfere/lower testosterone, which has a greatly underestimated role in well being of males and women will experience something similar I guess. Kratom also suppresses T production but much less so than opioid full agonists,

Thanks bro I found this to have alot of very useful information and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it all.