Let's recognize the advantages of heroin too...

[PapaverPrisoner]

In a very interesting discussion here - sadly closed - the debate got a bit heated. One person said heroin was damaging the brain, others contradicted him. Even if the person who thought heroin damaged the brain had some points I can't deny, I think it's fair to point at the advantages. For example is it recently discovered that many more schizophrenics than previously believed, are selfmedicating with heroin. Compared to non-heroin users they had much less trouble, and it was obvious even up to 5 years after terminating their heroin-use. Since H is affecting dopaminesystems, that's not surprising.
And when you might say that H slow down breading thereby making less oxygen available to the brain, it also profoundly dilates the bloodvessels, therebye making transportation of oxygen to brain and heart simpler, and since bloodpressure is diminshed, damages on those two vital organs are lessened. One of the worst afflictions in the human body is arteriosclerosis - most opiates and opioids are fighting that in humans. Ketobemidone (an opioid banned everywhere but in Scandinavia) is said to be the most effective antagonist of all medications against arteriosclerosis.
That heroin can cure severe colds even in non-addicts is well-known and we mustn't forget that several childmolestors, sexmurderers and rapists have got their perverted impulses extinguished with opiates.

 

[acid_raver]

ok i didnt read your whole post but just wanted to bring up this small point. Some people, not all, are affected by Heroin a lot more than others. It consumes their thoughts, and actions. If extremely addicted it can dominate their budget, and cramp other lifestyle departments (i.e. apartment, groceries, car, etc). So in this sense, yes, heroin does affect one's brain. Just not physically, in a more sinister (in my opinion) way, pyschologically. Now as I said above this is true for some people, I know some people who have taken heroin and not been affected by it as greatly as others. It just depends on the person. Just because something isnt physically damaging doesn't mean its not damaging.

 

[TheTruth]

Originally posted by acid_raver:
ok i didnt read your whole post but just wanted to bring up this small point. Some people, not all, are affected by Heroin a lot more than others. It consumes their thoughts, and actions. If extremely addicted it can dominate their budget, and cramp other lifestyle departments (i.e. apartment, groceries, car, etc). So in this sense, yes, heroin does affect one's brain. Just not physically, in a more sinister (in my opinion) way, pyschologically. Now as I said above this is true for some people, I know some people who have taken heroin and not been affected by it as greatly as others. It just depends on the person. Just because something isnt physically damaging doesn't mean its not damaging.
This has nothing to do with the topic of the post, next time read the post.

 

[PapaverPrisoner]

Agree Truth. If you don't bother to read the post you are referring to acid-raver, you may as well start your own thread - it wasn't THAT long, was it? If you had read it you'd see that I agreed on that heroin can be damaging and that it's very addicting. In fact I can't understand how some people here do it,; they are writing about "will-power", countless withdrawals, and STILL are able to go back to weekend use.
Noone I know who has been really and truly hooked physically have been able to do that. I have tried countless times myself but always failed. Not for want of willpower but you get so incredibly sick (for weeks) just by one shot, that the high is just not worth it. If someone has some special remedy that fools the opioid receptors, I'd just love to learn the secret.

 

[SovietContin]

I see no long term benefits to heroin unless you're a fan of depression.

 

[PapaverPrisoner]

I agree with the depression, since I've been using heavily myself for many years, but you wrote sometime ago that you couldn't wait until your tolerance was down again, so that you could enjoy your weekend oxy-use. Have you succeeded? And if you did, how in *** do you cope with the inevitable dysphoria BETWEEN those weekend shots, a dysphjoria that has nothing to do with longing for the pleasure of heroin-high. Rather it's a combination of physical symtoms like sweating, aching, nose-running etc and a low that surpasses every low you could suffer before you got into heroin.
On all these threads here on heroin-use, the discussion seems to brush over this aspect and concentrating on will-power as if longin for the high itself was the real obstacle.

 

[PhreeX]

I can't say anything bad about heroin or any other opiate/opioid .. sorry, all the negetive aspects of the drug use can be negated by the body itself... so I fully agree, it's clearly been prooven to be the least damaging to the body, addiction is nothing but the user letting the drug take control (and that's no harm as long as you can afford it!)
Hrmm... this gives me an idea..
Stay tuned!
PhreeX - opioid dependant for almost 4 years and GOD DAMN PROUD TO ADMIT IT!

 

[PapaverPrisoner]

Passed out for 2 hours? Hmmmm I wouldn't be surprised if THAT is where the secret of not getting addicted lies. I mean, abstain from taking big doses, only so that you feel well and not high. It's hard to prove since almost all users take as big shots as they can. Even after many years when there can be no question of any traces of morphine left in the body, tolerance seem to be remembered in the body, and withdrawal symtoms can get triggered.

 

[vocab]

That heroin can cure severe colds even in non-addicts is well-known and we mustn't forget that several childmolestors, sexmurderers and rapists have got their perverted impulses extinguished with opiates.
Heroin cannot cure a cold, there is no cure for the common cold. Heroin can mask the symptoms of a cold. It can mask the symptoms of many diseases and sicknesses, both mental and physical. Heroin also diminishes sex drive which may be the reason "perverted impulses" are extinguished with opiates.
I have used opiates on and off for fifteen years and have found that it "cures" nothing. It does mask certain things. Those cetain mental or physical ailments are suspended as long as you continue using and resurface when you stop.
[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: vocab ]

 

[ucfhottie2001]

Actually i took the time to read your post and it seemed to me that you took the pro-heroin side....

I think it's fair to point at the advantages. For example is it recently discovered that many more schizophrenics than previously believed, are selfmedicating with heroin. Compared to non-heroin users they had much less trouble, and it was obvious even up to 5 years after terminating their heroin-use. Since H is affecting dopaminesystems, that's not surprising.
maybe before flamming people you should read YOUR OWN posts! just a suggestion....

 

[SovietContin]

Heroin also diminishes sex drive which may be the reason "perverted impulses" are extinguished with opiates.
This is not universal. The absolute best sex I have ever had was when my girl and I were on heroin. I've been taking opiates for 7 years and most recently fallen into heroin addiction for the past few months and my sex drive is as good as ever. I could be getting it 3 times a day and it still wouldn't be enough.

 

[[u.k neuronauticals inc]]

^You are both right.^
If youre a heroin addict who is currently in a relationship,and sex is there on a plate,then you would ofcourse have it,and it would be good.But an addict who is NOT in a relationship,will tend not to put too much effort in bothering trying to find it.
While i was going out with my girlfriend of 3 years,sex was there if i wanted it,but when we split up,i noticed i had no interest in attempting to find a partner.This was simply because of my habit.
Obviously this is not true with everyone,but opiates do decrease urges to do anything apart from scoring dope,so i can see how they would passify rapists,kiddy fiddlers etc etc.

 

[PapaverPrisoner]

blablabla I didn't say that you couldn't do what you want. I just kind of thought if small doses are the reason why certain people say that they can do heroin on and off WITHOUT GETTING HORRIBLY SICK! That's what I'm talking about all the time. I've tried it countless times, and I've seen people who said they could do that, gotten hooked one by one year after year. But here on this site people are talking all the time of using on-off heroin without problems. I just can't figure it out.
And you who are talking about taking heroin's side - give me a break! I begin to understand the moderators who claim that it's impossible to discuss opiates without a lot of predjudice. If I admit that heroin has drawbacks, I can't point out a few benefits, because then I'm on heroin's side?
As to cure colds, several people have cured their colds - not speaking of addicts here - with heroin, and it did not return.

 

[zorn]

Hullo all....
As vocab mentioned above, heroin and other opioids don't cure colds... period. However, it's probably a very effective medicine at masking the symptoms, not to mention making you high as fuck so you no longer care you are sick.
The amount of nausea from heroin and other opioids varies widely from person to person; it's not simply a matter of dose. Some people get quite sick from even a little; others (like myself) can get a full "nod" without becoming even slightly nauseous.

 

[MoFo_S]

I would have to agree that heroin and most opioids produce a pretty flawless high....For a couple hours, you feel content and euphoric, nothing could go wrong - then you gently come down, there is no crash, you are left with a peaceful feeling for hours and you can drift genty into sleep; there really seem to be no significant down sides to the experience. And that is where the biggest flaw lies: When you have a pill, a vial, a powder that can effortlessly make you feel intensely happy for a few hours, why not take it? Why not try to get more?
I have almost never known a person who had easy access to opioids, constant access, and who ever did large doses of them on occasion who did not use them habitually. In constrast, I have known plenty of speed freaks, e-tards, coke heads, etc etc who went through one or two periods were they used their drug habitually and intensely, but all of them eventually either stopped usage or leveled their use to minimal and occasional levels. They moved on. Even their minds seemed to lose the repeated cravings and desires for the drug after a while. I don't see many heavy opioid users who 'move on' after a while. The ones I have seen do so almost inevitably fall back into usage after a short period of time, or it is all they think about when they are straight. Sure, there might be some people who can try heroin, use it constantly for a few weeks or months, and then get tired of it and never think about it, or think about it only rarely, for the rest of their lives. I see that all the time with other drugs - but the other drugs all have their regulating mechanisms. People on stimulants burn out after a while, cannot tweak any longer - psychedelics lose their mystery - the list goes on...but even after the beautiful euphoria of opioid agonization fades away, the desire for more doesn't seem to, and then you have one of the most powerful physical and psychological addictions to deal with I have ever seen, hand in hand with a hellish withdrawl facing you just hours after that last shot. Opioids are a wonderful pleasure to be had on occasion - their general scarcity forces most people to use them on such a basis - but a pleasure I think most people would be wise to not delve into too often.
I don't think "strength" has much of anything to do with it. "Uh, only weak people who surrender to the drug and have nothing better to do become addicted" I have heard that one a lot, mostly from heavily opioid dependent people. A life with a steady supply of unlimited smack would probably be great for a while, maybe even forever, but do you really want to look back at your existence at the end and have to accept that maybe fifty percent of it was spent thinking about smack, doing smack, scoring smack, talking about smack....probably fifty percent is too low a number. If you say yes now I am guessing you are no stranger to narcotics. I certainly would not want to have the sum of my life, the final outcome of my existence, the way I was remembered as being "Man, that guy did so much dope...wow, he was nodding ALL the time...". Maybe a few shots of Oxymorphone or a bucket of Duragesics would change my mind?
Opioids in steady supply are probably the key to a long, simple, happy, unproductive, very focused life - one with no real ups or downs. They provide possibly the best pleasure I have felt from anything. Opioid addiction is the ultimate act of conformity, the ultimate act of giving in, selling out, joining the masses, complete surrender to the system; though most of those habituated would probably vehemently deny it. It lends perfectly to routine, smothers individualism, crushes independence - but does so slowly, with silken, caressing fingers, softly whispered words...and above all, it can change your mind, rework your opinions no matter how strong they once were - and leave you blind to it in the end. If I wanted to create the world pictured in the book 1984 (or countless other simillar pieces of fiction) I would definitely do it with opioids; what better tool to make people forget, render them utterly dependent, make them masters of 'doublethink'?
I'll probably enjoy a mellow little buzz from some codeine tonight...looking forward to it already...after that, I won't be able to get more for at least two weeks, maybe a month - thank god for that...

 

[Sonny]

Originally posted by MoFo_S:
Opioids in steady supply are probably the key to a long, simple, happy, unproductive, very focused life - one with no real ups or downs. They provide possibly the best pleasure I have felt from anything. Opioid addiction is the ultimate act of conformity, the ultimate act of giving in, selling out, joining the masses, complete surrender to the system; though most of those habituated would probably vehemently deny it. It lends perfectly to routine, smothers individualism, crushes independence - but does so slowly, with silken, caressing fingers, softly whispered words...and above all, it can change your mind, rework your opinions no matter how strong they once were - and leave you blind to it in the end. If I wanted to create the world pictured in the book 1984 (or countless other simillar pieces of fiction) I would definitely do it with opioids; what better tool to make people forget, render them utterly dependent, make them masters of 'doublethink'?
...
true true... life with steady supply becomes very dull but enjoyable ... when i spend a week or something high on smack its just one long comfortable day/night when i did exactly nothing of use..

 

[quale]

What does the drug do and what does it's illegality away.
What if we had an island where opiates were legal...were each individual could tailor his dose freely....and, due to the marvels of modern opiate chemistry, cheeply. Individuals would be happy euphoric and generally live life just a ltitle bit better.
Would they be comformists? Ulitimately this question probably doesn't matter. What would their non-conformism accomplish...build more useless junk? The Opiates themselves accomplish the good work of man on this earth.
However, I think not. The historical examples of great achievers poets, doctors what not who are/were opiate addicts are too numerous to list.
Many people probably just lay around when they get opiates because this isn't their everyday experience. I think provided with unlimited opiates people would go out work like they do now...and if fact with the courage and confidence provided by the opiates take more steps off the beaten path.

 

[PapaverPrisoner]

Sorry if I made you confused blahblah - I didn't mean you with the "heroin-side"-issue but the signature ucfhottie2001. I agree with most of what you say blahblah - heroin is very addicting -still I want it legalized.
MofoS very well written, but when you compare the empty life as a drug-adddict with the meaningful existence of the normal human being, I have to protest a little bit. Sure most of the addicts live hard and meaningless lives, but if they didn't have to fight for their hits all the time they could do other things as well. I was quite priviliged as I almost always had plenty of the drug, and I ate vegetables, cared for my family, friends and pets, as well as being organized in activities concerning pollution etc. I always had hobbies and I had an ordinary work also.
Compared with the average citizen I evaluated material possessions far less, and what in their money-grubbing, materialistic lives is there to be so enthusiastic about?
Heroin has cured many colds...period.

 

[FreakK]

BLAH- are you still using H???i thought i remembered reading a recent post of yours where u stated u had just went into the city to score some..
well, i am one of those people with a very solid supply of OPIATES all around me..i can get them for rather cheap as well, and YES i am using OC's on a daily basis for about 8 months now..
i am NOT miserable about being addicted to this medicine, as it really doesnt effect me NEGATIVELY in any manner..i will say that it has decreased my overall sex drive, i can still get it up, but the desire isnt there as much as before..i have to add EPHEDRINE to get me in the "mood"....
as far as running out all the time, and having to go hunt down some OPIATES to kill my sickness, that doesnt happen in MY situation..i rarely run out, maybe once every 6 months, and then all i do is ask a friend if i can borrow some of his MORPHINE or VICODENs...problem solved...
with OPIATES, one doesnt need to do ANYTHING to be content..this is a GOOD thing in my eyes for the most part...OPIATES are the cure-all for BOREDOM..i have NEVER ever felt bored or restless while under the influenece of opiates..i can sit around and watch movies all day and be happy as ever...i can go out and party or play basketball or whatever..i do notice that i am a very MELLOW person nowadays, even when i am not high on opiates..opiates seemed to have changed my personality for the GOOD actually..i used to be very restless, bored, hyper and yet i could never keep myself busy enuff to be content..nowadays, everything is fine..i like it this way..
OPIATES, of course, are a true blessing when it comes to managing PAIN..that is a very positive side effect of opiates for me..years of lifting weights and working masonry has done alot of damage to my back and shoulders, and opiates do a great deal in alleviating damn near all the pain i have..
so, im not sure if opiates should be legal or not..most cannot control there drug use, but im not sure if that is because of the fact that drugs are illegal and are rather expensive, or if they are just very impulsive/compulsive people...i dont see HEROIN ever being legal again...
everyone has there favorite drug, and mine is of course opiates..i would hate being all whacked out on METH or COCA, and just assume be all mellowed out on opiates..i think if more people had access to this great drug, that they would stop there use of alcohol and other drugs...

 

[FreakK]

i also dont completely understand where people are coming from when they say that people who take OPIATES lead a pointless/meaningless existence..why exactly would that be??there usage of opiates makes there life pointless and without reason??i have to disagree...i do not spend half of my life trying to hunt down the drug, like so many do, NOR do i sit around all the time thinking about opiates...in fact, i rarely sit and think about opiates or taking opiates..i think about things like making money, what im doing that particular night, and other things...i would put myself in the small minority of opiates users, as i dont seem to get near as OBSESSED with the drug as so many do..i have had several friends who literally did nothing but take NUBAIN and when they werent taking it, they talked about it...