Lysergamides Lysergamide producer taken down

[AutoTripper]

That has been my experience, that the resellers were the ones that were sourcing opioids / benzo type products while LL was only providing lysergamides and tryptamides. LL would not allow sales in UK, US and Austria, hence the resellers and the the additional substances were disocuraged. In fact I believe that they asked resellers to stop carrying O/B type substances some time (years) ago.

I just saw this mate. Hope you keep well, busy and productive still.


I just commercial on this above that's all. LL were making everything themselves, incl benzos.

 

[NitroCat]

Well I have only ever been exposed to their catalogue from authorized resellers... wasn't even aware they could be bought from directly as a consumer. So it may be that the resellers were the ones offering opioids, and if that is the case, then I apologize for the misinformation. Several of my friends have said that they knew it was a bad move when LL started producing opioids, so that's I suppose where that opinion originated. If it's not true, then I'd like to stand corrected.

Oh I have their wholesale catalog; I sent them an email asking for the art one of their blotters used ages ago and somehow got added to the mailing list

 

[cryptix420]

How do you know? It turned out that for over a decade almost everything sold as LSD was an analogue. The (R) sec-butyl amide (N monosubstitution) has higher affinity for the 5HT2a receptor was commonly sold as LSD. Tim Scully was caught making that analogue in Canada. The (S,S) 2,4-dimethyl azetidine homologue also has higher affinity.

I agree that the prodrugs - especially when they kept on having to make the amides longer and longer has delayed onset and other pharmokinetic differences, but with those in which just the amide are different, they seem very similar. I believe some Italian chemists were knocking out many N-monosubstituted analogues and selling them as LSD. The 3-pentyl amide for example.

I don't think I've sampled any examples with different (to the natural methyl) 8-substituted analogues. The N-ethyl is more potent but the dose is adjusted so few people know. The 8-allyl is supposed to be subtly different... but I never tried it.

Come on dude, how are you going to sit here and tell me 'everything sold for a decade was an analogue'....


And how do I know what LSD feels like? Idk taking it hundreds of times over the course of decades has given me a pretty good idea of what LSD feels like compared to compounds like ALD-52, etc.

 

[Fertile]

Come on dude, how are you going to sit here and tell me 'everything sold for a decade was an analogue'....


And how do I know what LSD feels like? Idk taking it hundreds of times over the course of decades has given me a pretty good idea of what LSD feels like compared to compounds like ALD-52, etc.

I was careful to state that the prodrugs WOULD have different pharmokinetics, if you bothered to read my post.

So yeah, the prodrugs being just that will not be instantly converted to an active and so will have different pharmokinetics and so would feel slightly different (delayed onset, slightly lower peak plasma levels and slightly longer duration).

But the different amides are a lot harder to spot. Tim Skully produced the (R) sec-butyl amine homolouge of LSD for over a decade AS LSD and nobody ever suggested it was not LSD. It actually has a slightly higher 5HT2a affinity but it's pharmokintetics are just about identical. I know a large Italian operation was producing lysergic acid 3-pentyl amide and again, sold it as LSD. Again, they are at it for over a decade.

Later a smaller producer made lysergic acid (S,S) 2,4-dimethylazetidide (higher affinity again) but nobody noticed much and I argue would have mistaken it for LSD unless told.

So when people don't know - they don't NOTICE. But if you buy ALD 52 or any of those increasingly bulky amide prodrugs, they are going to become increasingly different to LSD. I still believe that if nobody knew, they wouldn't

It's such a subjective drug that no 2 trips are the same. So it would be nice to try a double-blind study with control, subjects given LSD, subjects given one of the different amides (sec butyl or 3-pentyl amide). I very much doubt people would notice. Obviously animal models showed them to be the same, but it's not a good topic for animal models.

I should add that the NBOMes offered a new class of highly potent 5HT2b ligand but they turned out to be hazardous. It would be nice to know why.

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

lizard labs? they made the cleanest dissos and benzos. will always remember iv 3-meo-pce and vaping etizolam. tragic.

smoking dope and shooting coke played a role, but i give therealrc most of the credit for my first stint in rehab after over two decades of hard drug use.

 

[G_Chem]

I was careful to state that the prodrugs WOULD have different pharmokinetics, if you bothered to read my post.

So yeah, the prodrugs being just that will not be instantly converted to an active and so will have different pharmokinetics and so would feel slightly different (delayed onset, slightly lower peak plasma levels and slightly longer duration).

But the different amides are a lot harder to spot. Tim Skully produced the (R) sec-butyl amine homolouge of LSD for over a decade AS LSD and nobody ever suggested it was not LSD. It actually has a slightly higher 5HT2a affinity but it's pharmokintetics are just about identical. I know a large Italian operation was producing lysergic acid 3-pentyl amide and again, sold it as LSD. Again, they are at it for over a decade.

Later a smaller producer made lysergic acid (S,S) 2,4-dimethylazetidide (higher affinity again) but nobody noticed much and I argue would have mistaken it for LSD unless told.

So when people don't know - they don't NOTICE. But if you buy ALD 52 or any of those increasingly bulky amide prodrugs, they are going to become increasingly different to LSD. I still believe that if nobody knew, they wouldn't

It's such a subjective drug that no 2 trips are the same. So it would be nice to try a double-blind study with control, subjects given LSD, subjects given one of the different amides (sec butyl or 3-pentyl amide). I very much doubt people would notice. Obviously animal models showed them to be the same, but it's not a good topic for animal models.

I should add that the NBOMes offered a new class of highly potent 5HT2b ligand but they turned out to be hazardous. It would be nice to know why.

Where is that Tim Scully info coming from? From when to when? I don’t believe it until I see some actual proof beyond a post on BL.

-GC

 

[Didgital]

The (R) sec-butyl amide (N monosubstitution) has higher affinity for the 5HT2a receptor was commonly sold as LSD. Tim Scully was caught making that analogue in Canada.

Tim Scully was never caught in Canada, perhaps you are thinking of Nick Sand. Afaik Nick was making actual LSD. He even bragged about his LSD being purer than the (likely degraded) reference that Canadian forensics had on hand. When your sample is purer than the reference the analysis gives wacky results like 105% purity

 

[izo]

Later a smaller producer made lysergic acid (S,S) 2,4-dimethylazetidide (higher affinity again) but nobody noticed much and I argue would have mistaken it for LSD unless told.

ive heard its a fair bit less good than plain lsd.

I should add that the NBOMes offered a new class of highly potent 5HT2b ligand but they turned out to be hazardous. It would be nice to know why.

hazardous? ok, you need doses around 300-500mcg, so an od is easy for the plain idiot user. apart from that 25c-NBOME was the best psychdelic i ever had at around 300mcg. 5ht2b agonism shouldnt be a problem at these doses.

 

[Xorkoth]

The NBOMes are dangerous though, simply put, because people are idiots. But not only that, the dosages being sold on blotters were typically around 1 to 1.2mg... which is WAY higher than they should have been, similar to how in the 60s, when DOM made the rounds as "STP", they made the poor decision to dose the tabs at 20mg each, and people were ending up in the hospital. But unlike the STP days, overdosing on NBOMes (especially 25i) can kill you. There were a few documented deaths from as few as 2 standard (ie, overdosed) blotters.

If the blotters had been dosed at 300ug, I think we would have seen less damage caused by them. But still, they (especially 25i) had a tendency to cause rhabdomyolysis and other serious problems that you don't normally see with psychedelics, probably because they're strong full agonists.

 

[Fertile]

That's a dosage issue. DOC, DOB & DOI were put on blotters at huge doses.

If people can measure LSD to 100ug-250ug without issue, they most certainly can do the same for the NBOMes. I think it's because people were selling bulk powder and people had no way of working out HOW to dose. In the case of LSD I believe methanol was used with 1 drop being 1 dose. The methanol would dry (and in any case 1 drop isn't toxic) but maybe they would need a different solvent?

I note that Cayman chemicals lists the hydrochloride salt as being soluble in ethanol, DMSO & DMF. All of these would dry leaving an absolute dose.

Also crazy to but big doses on tabs - you get less doses for your money.

 

[anti_MK]

Several of my friends have said that they knew it was a bad move when LL started producing opioids, so that's I suppose where that opinion originated. If it's not true, then I'd like to stand corrected.

That has been my experience, that the resellers were the ones that were sourcing opioids / benzo type products while LL was only providing lysergamides and tryptamides.

Your friends are right Xorkoth, LL did sell O-DSMT yellow pills at 50mg.

It's a shame those guys didn't stick with the psychedelics. Powerful derivatives of benzodiazepines, cathinones and other highly addictive products. My opinion may not be very popular, but I think they reap what they sow.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah it was a mistake to move into the realm of "hard drugs". Opioids in particular. Granted, O-DSMT is about the safest of all of the RC opioids, but it's still an opioid, and those bring massive amounts of heat these days.

It's a damn shame. Still, I am grateful for their prioneering work while it lasted. Before them, the idea that anyone would ever produce designer lysergamides seemed like a pipe dream. We got to try some real gems, like AL-LAD and ETH-LAD. Plus so many more tryptamines than had previous been available.

Wish I'd have obtained PiPT/4-HO-PiPT while I had the chance, I always thought that sounded like an amazing substance.

 

[Fertile]

Tim Scully was never caught in Canada, perhaps you are thinking of Nick Sand. Afaik Nick was making actual LSD. He even bragged about his LSD being purer than the (likely degraded) reference that Canadian forensics had on hand. When your sample is purer than the reference the analysis gives wacky results like 105% purity

I stand corrected - I knew one of the 1960s producers had carried on. But note that few people seemed to notice that he wasn't making LSD. It was SOLD as LSD (not by him, I bet, I'm sure he informed wholesalers that it was a legal analogue) BUT to the public at large it was LSD.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Your friends are right Xorkoth, LL did sell O-DSMT yellow pills at 50mg.

It's a shame those guys didn't stick with the psychedelics. Powerful derivatives of benzodiazepines, cathinones and other highly addictive products. My opinion may not be very popular, but I think they reap what they sow.

I'm not doubting you....but it's very interesting that the picture of these yellow pressed LL tablets are identical in appearance to their 4acodmt yellow pressed tabs that I got back when they when 4acodmt was still legal in the Netherlands.
In fact I found one under my couch that's been thrre for years and it has turned a darker shade of yellow...almost slightly brown but they originally looked identical to the pic you posted of the O-Desmethyl-Tramadol pellets.

 

[NitroCat]

I'm not doubting you....but it's very interesting that the picture of these yellow pressed LL tablets are identical in appearance to their 4acodmt yellow pressed tabs that I got back when they when 4acodmt was still legal in the Netherlands.
In fact I found one under my couch that's been thrre for years and it has turned a darker shade of yellow...almost slightly brown but they originally looked identical to the pic you posted of the O-Desmethyl-Tramadol pellets.

I'm trying to figure out where to upload the copies of their catalog I have, I have one from Feb22 and one from Aug22

 

[blistersinthedark]

Wayback machine is a good way to look up what they had: https://web.archive.org/web/*/lizardlabs.eu *
You can filter results with product names. O-DSMT doesn't show up. A lot of benzos do, however.

 

[anti_MK]

I'm not doubting you....but it's very interesting that the picture of these yellow pressed LL tablets are identical in appearance to their 4acodmt yellow pressed tabs that I got back when they when 4acodmt was still legal in the Netherlands.
In fact I found one under my couch that's been thrre for years and it has turned a darker shade of yellow...almost slightly brown but they originally looked identical to the pic you posted of the O-Desmethyl-Tramadol pellets.

Wayback machine is a good way to look up what they had: https://web.archive.org/web/*/lizardlabs.eu *
You can filter results with product names. O-DSMT doesn't show up. A lot of benzos do, however.

Strangely, I can't find them on the LL catalog either...however, those who are in this scene know very well that the official showcase for small buyers individuals was this site:

O-DSMT 50mg Pellets

Product Name: O-Desmethyltramadol 50mg Pellets Other Name(s): O-DSMT, ODT IUPAC Name: 3-(2-((dimethylamino)methyl)-1-hydroxycyclohexyl)phenol hydrochloride CAS: 80456-81-1 Active Ingredient(s): O-Desmethyltramadol hydrochloride (50 mg) Other Ingredient(s): MCC, colloidal silicon dioxide, sodium...

web.archive.org

And what were they selling in 2021 (september) ? In case the link doesn't work:

The pills are well marked LL and contain 50mg of o-dsmt. I know this for a fact because a friend of mine was fooled like that: a big fan of lysergamides and other psychedelics, he didn't use opioids but when he placed his order one day when he had a backache, he ordered O-dsmt. That was his gateway to opioids...so even though I'm a fan of 1cp-lsd, I don't like that these guys potentially got people hooked who didn't know where to get benzodiazepines or opioids.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Strangely, I can't find them on the LL catalog either...however, those who are in this scene know very well that the official showcase for small buyers individuals was this site:

O-DSMT 50mg Pellets

Product Name: O-Desmethyltramadol 50mg Pellets Other Name(s): O-DSMT, ODT IUPAC Name: 3-(2-((dimethylamino)methyl)-1-hydroxycyclohexyl)phenol hydrochloride CAS: 80456-81-1 Active Ingredient(s): O-Desmethyltramadol hydrochloride (50 mg) Other Ingredient(s): MCC, colloidal silicon dioxide, sodium...

web.archive.org

And what were they selling in 2021 (september) ? In case the link doesn't work:

The pills are well marked LL and contain 50mg of o-dsmt. I know this for a fact because a friend of mine was fooled like that: a big fan of lysergamides and other psychedelics, he didn't use opioids but when he placed his order one day when he had a backache, he ordered O-dsmt. That was his gateway to opioids...so even though I'm a fan of 1cp-lsd, I don't like that these guys potentially got people hooked who didn't know where to get benzodiazepines or opioids.

Yeah the 4acodmt yellow pellets were purchased many years ago.
I guess since they retired the yellow 4acodmt pellets they had to put something in yellow pellets....only so many different colours you can make press tablets into.
I do however think vendors who sell psychedelics have a place selling benzos....they've saved many people I know from taking too much acid or tryptamines at festivals and parties.
But opioids are just plane irresponsible

 

[Psilanaut]

With a bit of sleuthing I landed on the name Alexander Stratford, could be wrong though

You are not wrong.

 

[Viraldrome]

Bought my last 20 hits of AL-LAD paid an arm and leg for it too, but I'll never be able to get that again. I'm sure I'll be able to score LSD in the future but this rare little gem of a substance is going to be gone, probably forever. I think I have about 75 hits total of it. If it's still available when I get christmas bonus I may get another few but RIP AL-LAD.

I'm realizing how insular our little world is here. I saw my friend post on his birthday on facebook he is taking donations for for some psychedelic therapy charity and mentioned "did you hear no more 1p?" he had never even heard of 1p-lsd or any of these drugs. There still hasn't even been any coverage in the media besides a little blurb on Vice. I'm starting to think we didn't slip under the radar all these years because the media didn't bother with us, they simply didn't know. We are lucky we never had a "kids taking dangerous LSD they bought online and it's LEGAL" headlines, or the end would have come sooner.