MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 7) [ALL LTC posts go here]

[Jabberwocky]

Vit C pills are good but there was just something to the infusions where I felt refreshed. I'm sure part of it is placebo but the blood levels you get with IV are much higher. Vit C is pretty good for the HPA axis too.

A single administration of ascorbic acid rapidly reverses depressive-like behavior and hippocampal synaptic dysfunction induced by corticosterone in mice

Ketamine is the prototype for glutamate-based fast-acting antidepressants. The establishment of ketamine-like drugs is still a challenge and ascorbic …

www.sciencedirect.com

Another thing I think which predisposes one to HPA or neurosteroid issues is low cholesterol. My chol levels were always very low like 100, so something like MDMA could easily mess up the steroid cascade and neurosteroids too. I wonder what the chol levels are of the LTC sufferers

Also I tried AlloPregnanolone drops recently for my caffeine blunting issue and they were amazing temporarily. The first time it felt almost like MDMA itself, so I think there’s a connection and its not serotonin.

I was just doing some personal research, regarding epinephrine.

Amazingly epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, noradrenaline all cause massive loss of magnesium in the body.

MDMA and other stimulants cause significant release and reuptake inhibition of norepinephrine.

Perhaps loss of magnesium due to abuse of MDMA and stimulants is the causative factor or a major causative factor of LTC.

 

[ZeroLuck]

I was just doing some personal research, regarding epinephrine.

Amazingly epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, noradrenaline all cause massive loss of magnesium in the body.

MDMA and other stimulants cause significant release and reuptake inhibition of norepinephrine.

Perhaps loss of magnesium due to abuse and MDMA and stimulants is the causative factor or a major causative factor of LTC.

Funny I’ve had 2 epinephrine shots 0.5ug and I’ve relapsed… that was a week ago

 

[Jabberwocky]

Funny I’ve had 2 epinephrine shots 0.5ug and I’ve relapsed… that was a week ago

Guess what's also implicated in HPA axis dysfunction/ dysregulation?

Norepinephrine!

 

[Veebonacci]

I was just doing some personal research, regarding epinephrine.

Amazingly epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, noradrenaline all cause massive loss of magnesium in the body.

MDMA and other stimulants cause significant release and reuptake inhibition of norepinephrine.

Perhaps loss of magnesium due to abuse of MDMA and stimulants is the causative factor or a major causative factor of LTC.

Yes “Amazingly epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, noradrenaline all cause massive loss of magnesium in the body.” That’s my guess which is why I’m trying to find enough people on this board to prove or disprove that taking magnesium helps them get out of LTC. And hard to detect it’s magnesium deficiency on tests unless you are really low. could be wrong of course but there is very minimal downside to taking your vitamins and minerals. I believe there are about 4 risk factors that people have to watch out for if you are taking magnesium but for most people it seems to be pretty safe. (of course do your own research) I even tried taking a decent size dose of mdma (about .3 grams) then taking in loads of electrolytes. Felt completely normal afterwards. I didn’t have the usual day or two of feeling like a zombie.

my mentor always told me to keep it simple stupid. It really could be this simple. Plus I have seen it work first hand. I just need a bigger sample size now

after reading the magnesium miracle, it said it could take up to a year to fully replenish your magnesium stores which is pretty nuts.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes “Amazingly epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, noradrenaline all cause massive loss of magnesium in the body.” That’s my guess which is why I’m trying to find enough people on this board to prove or disprove that taking magnesium helps them get out of LTC. And hard to detect it’s magnesium deficiency on tests unless you are really low. could be wrong of course but there is very minimal downside to taking your vitamins and minerals. I believe there are about 4 risk factors that people have to watch out for if you are taking magnesium but for most people it seems to be pretty safe. (of course do your own research) I even tried taking a decent size dose of mdma (about .3 grams) then taking in loads of electrolytes. Felt completely normal afterwards. I didn’t have the usual day or two of feeling like a zombie. my mentor always told me to keep it simple stupid. It really could be this simple.

I wouldn't say it's going to get them out of LTC.

I think magnesium supplementation is something that will help to fix the HPA Axis and also help manage excess norepinephrine.

However, there is a horrible feedback loop based on pituitary hormones (ACTH, vasopressin, HGH, and (what do you know?) Cortisol). MDMA causes an 800% increase in circulating cortisol, if you take a little bit extra or if it's got an adulterant in it that might boost cortisol even more...


All kinds of stuff going on in the hypothalamus which has lots to do with the GABAergic system.

And then you have adrenal fatigue or adrenal overproduction, which is where you have the adrenaline / norepinephrine. Which is in a horrible feedback loop with ACTH and cortisol like I noted.

This is due to the HPA axis dysregulation. It is an extremely interconnected web of horrible crap.

It's not sufficient just to supplement magnesium, it can't hurt, it can only help, but by itself it's not enough.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Vit C pills are good but there was just something to the infusions where I felt refreshed. I'm sure part of it is placebo but the blood levels you get with IV are much higher. Vit C is pretty good for the HPA axis too.

A single administration of ascorbic acid rapidly reverses depressive-like behavior and hippocampal synaptic dysfunction induced by corticosterone in mice

Ketamine is the prototype for glutamate-based fast-acting antidepressants. The establishment of ketamine-like drugs is still a challenge and ascorbic …

www.sciencedirect.com

Another thing I think which predisposes one to HPA or neurosteroid issues is low cholesterol. My chol levels were always very low like 100, so something like MDMA could easily mess up the steroid cascade and neurosteroids too. I wonder what the chol levels are of the LTC sufferers

Also I tried AlloPregnanolone drops recently for my caffeine blunting issue and they were amazing temporarily. The first time it felt almost like MDMA itself, so I think there’s a connection and its not serotonin.

I'm not sure about the cholesterol tie in.

I don't think your total cholesterol was 100. That would actually predispose you to (Read that as cause) anxiety, depression, brain, bleeding, and cancer.

Your doctor would also attempt to treat you with total cholesterol that low.

That would be extremely (not very) low and indicative of a significant metabolic issue, like thyroid disease which would cause it.

However, if your cholesterol was that low, it is likely the underlying condition causing your low cholesterol also causes HPA axis dysregulation. - it is also likely that any anxiety and depression was not due to MDMA use at all based on your low cholesterol.

Considering that the symptoms of very low cholesterol mimic the symptoms of LTC and HPA axis dysregulation namely anxiety, depression, neurological issues, it is likely that you put the cart before the horse.

If you have extremely low cholesterol meaning a total cholesterol of under 100, it is much more likely that your anxiety, depression, neurological issues, LTC, are due to whatever is causing your low cholesterol, and not the low cholesterol itself and not MDMA.

 

[Veebonacci]

I wouldn't say it's going to get them out of LTC.

I think magnesium supplementation is something that will help to fix the HPA Axis and also help manage excess norepinephrine.

However, there is a horrible feedback loop based on pituitary hormones (ACTH, vasopressin, HGH, and (what do you know?) Cortisol). MDMA causes an 800% increase in circulating cortisol, if you take a little bit extra or if it's got an adulterant in it that might boost cortisol even more...


All kinds of stuff going on in the hypothalamus which has lots to do with the GABAergic system.

And then you have adrenal fatigue or adrenal overproduction, which is where you have the adrenaline / norepinephrine. Which is in a horrible feedback loop with ACTH and cortisol like I noted.

This is due to the HPA axis dysregulation. It is an extremely interconnected web of horrible crap.

It's not sufficient just to supplement magnesium, it can't hurt, it can only help, but by itself it's not enough.

You should probably check out the book that was recommended earlier. Magnesium affects all those systems. If magnesium fixes HPA Axis then cool! magnesium is involved in over 300+ (the book says 800+) functions in the body.

You can say it wouldn’t get them out of LTC all you want but me and another user have seen it get people out of LTC.

 

[ZeroLuck]

Guess what's also implicated in HPA axis dysfunction/ dysregulation?

Norepinephrine!

I’m getting better way quicker this time, I’ve truly learned to not give a fuck about ltc anymore, totally gave up and only then my happiness started to peek over the corner.

 

[Deep_Fried]

I take magnesium every day along with other supplements for approx 2 years. It probably does some good, but surely no wonders.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You should probably check out the book that was recommended earlier. Magnesium affects all those systems. If magnesium fixes HPA Axis then cool! magnesium is involved in over 300+ (the book says 800+) functions in the body.

You can say it wouldn’t get them out of LTC all you want but me and another user have seen it get people out of LTC.

Just because magnesium is involved in a biochemical process as a coenzyme, a cofactor or a catalyst does not mean supplementation of magnesium fixes problems associated with all those processes.

It's much more likely that you never had LTC in the first place, but were suffering from magnesium deficiency which would give you all the symptoms that you thought was LTC but wasn't.

Norepinephrine drastically leaks magnesium from the body. Any type of stimulant use over any extended period of time, in concert with diet that is not overly rich in magnesium, will end up causing magnesium deficiency.

Glad we sorted out that most people with LTC don't actually have LTC, they have magnesium deficiency because that's what you said, even though you didn't realize it.

 

[Veebonacci]

Just because magnesium is involved in a biochemical process as a coenzyme, a cofactor or a catalyst does not mean supplementation of magnesium fixes problems associated with all those processes.

It's much more likely that you never had LTC in the first place, but were suffering from magnesium deficiency which would give you all the symptoms that you thought was LTC but wasn't.

Norepinephrine drastically leaks magnesium from the body. Any type of stimulant use over any extended period of time, in concert with diet that is not overly rich in magnesium, will end up causing magnesium deficiency.

Glad we sorted out that most people with LTC don't actually have LTC, they have magnesium deficiency because that's what you said, even though you didn't realize it.

The mdma caused a severe reduction in electrolytes which causes a whole host of problems which probably lead to (LTC).

Its interesting you have to make up a scenario to fit your conclusion

No need to be a dick about it. You literally just found out that “Amazingly epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, noradrenaline all cause massive loss of magnesium in the body.”

 

[Jabberwocky]

The mdma caused a severe reduction in electrolytes which causes a whole host of problems which probably lead to (LTC).

Its interesting you have to make up a scenario to fit your conclusion

No need to be a dick about it. You literally just found out that “Amazingly epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, noradrenaline all cause massive loss of magnesium in the body.”

I'm being completely serious.

Based on what you just posted, it's clear that the neurological issues associated with LTC, are not LTC, but rather are significant magnesium deficiency.

The facts that: the alleged symptoms of LTC are a subset or super set of both HPA, axis disregulation and magnesium deficiency which tend to overlap, epinephrine/ norepinephrine/ adrenaline/ noradrenaline all drastically leak magnesium from the body, people in first world countries are mildly deficient by and large in magnesium, stimulant and MDMA use and abuse acutely and chronically elevate norepinephrine levels in the body leading to loss of magnesium, and magnesium replacement therapy cured you of these issues, clearly indicates that you suffered from magnesium deficiency and not some made up syndrome called LTC.

I wasn't being a dick.

If you were serious about the dehydration, retract it.

People get severely dehydrated all the time. A single episode of severe dehydration does not cause magnesium deficiency or anything remotely like alleged LTC.

People get more dehydrated from participating in triathlons than they do from using MDMA. They don't get LTC.

Repeated uses of stimulants and MDMA, as well as alcohol, and poor first world diet, create a perfect storm for magnesium deficiency, which then results in potassium deficiency (if you are low in magnesium, you lose potassium), and calcium deficiency (if you are low in magnesium, you lose calcium), and also parathyroid hormone deficiency, (if you are low in magnesium, you don't make parathyroid hormone properly).

So now we have low potassium and low magnesium which causes irregular heartbeats, neurological issues, muscle weakness, depression, anxiety, potentially tachycardia. Potentially tachycardia. We also have calcium deficiency which can lead to irregular heartbeat.

Insufficient parathyroid hormone causes:

• A lump in the neck
• Difficulty speaking or swallowing
• Muscle weakness
• Sudden increase in blood calcium levels (hypercalcemia)
• Fatigue, drowsiness
• Urinating more than usual, which may cause you to be dehydrated and very thirsty
• Bone pain and broken bones
• Kidney stones
• Constipation
• Depression
• Nausea and vomiting
• Loss of appetite

Please realize that very mild hypomagnesia will probably not represent with any of these symptoms.

We are talking about significant magnesium deficiency. Not severe but significant. This is the reason why relatively few people with respect to the millions that have used MDMA, present with symptoms that have been termed LTC, but that we now realize are actually significant magnesium deficiency.

 

[Veebonacci]

I'm being completely serious.

Based on what you just posted, it's clear that the neurological issues associated with LTC, are not LTC, but rather are significant magnesium deficiency.

The facts that: the alleged symptoms of LTC are a subset or super set of both HPA, axis disregulation and magnesium deficiency which tend to overlap, epinephrine/ norepinephrine/ adrenaline/ noradrenaline all drastically leak magnesium from the body, people in first world countries are mildly deficient by and large in magnesium, stimulant and MDMA use and abuse acutely and chronically elevate norepinephrine levels in the body leading to loss of magnesium, and magnesium replacement therapy cured you of these issues, clearly indicates that you suffered from magnesium deficiency and not some made up syndrome called LTC.

I wasn't being a dick.

If you were serious about the dehydration, retract it.

People get severely dehydrated all the time. A single episode of severe dehydration does not cause magnesium deficiency or anything remotely like alleged LTC.

People get more dehydrated from participating in triathlons than they do from using MDMA. They don't get LTC.

Repeated uses of stimulants and MDMA, as well as alcohol, and poor first world diet, create a perfect storm for magnesium deficiency, which then results in potassium deficiency (if you are low in magnesium, you lose potassium), and calcium deficiency (if you are low in magnesium, you lose calcium), and also parathyroid hormone deficiency, (if you are low in magnesium, you don't make parathyroid hormone properly).

So now we have low potassium and low magnesium which causes irregular heartbeats, neurological issues, muscle weakness, depression, anxiety, potentially tachycardia. Potentially tachycardia. We also have calcium deficiency which can lead to irregular heartbeat.

Insufficient parathyroid hormone causes:

• A lump in the neck
• Difficulty speaking or swallowing
• Muscle weakness
• Sudden increase in blood calcium levels (hypercalcemia)
• Fatigue, drowsiness
• Urinating more than usual, which may cause you to be dehydrated and very thirsty
• Bone pain and broken bones
• Kidney stones
• Constipation
• Depression
• Nausea and vomiting
• Loss of appetite

Please realize that very mild hypomagnesia will probably not represent with any of these symptoms.

We are talking about significant magnesium deficiency. Not severe but significant. This is the reason why relatively few people with respect to the millions that have used MDMA, present with symptoms that have been termed LTC, but that we now realize are actually significant magnesium deficiency.

Wat? Who said anything about dehydration? Taking Mdma vs getting dehydrated in a race is clearly different. It’s actually laughable. its so clear you cannot take in new info without warping it. Your bias is very evident. I’ve shown you with The article clearly showing the difficulties in identifying specifically magnesium deficiency. Yet you still cling to your idea. (I know you didn’t read it either )

It doesn’t matter tho, if you don’t think my idea is the culprit then move along. This info is not for you.

For everyone else, read up more on magnesium and the numerous effects it can have on your physical and mental. The magnesium miracle is a very interesting read in that it links over 100+ problems you would never expect such as diabetes, depression, adrenal fatigue, fibromyalgia, anxiety just to name a few. It’ll explain how systems in the body deplete your electrolytes and cause massive problems. it may help you, it may not. I hope everyone who is going through this the best of luck and to keep your head up as I know you guys are going through hell.

 

[Veebonacci]

This is the post that led me down the magnesium rabbit hole. I believe this thread is long gone now but I saved a screenshot of it. Big thanks to member G_Chem who posted this

 

[badooking]

Incidentally getting severely dehydrated and under/overtraining actually can cause HPA axis dysregulation too.

My LTC was a delayed one when I had it. I recovered from the initial comedown and then got symptoms out of nowhere again after getting dehydrated like 4 weeks later

 

[Jabberwocky]

Incidentally getting severely dehydrated and under/overtraining actually can cause HPA axis dysregulation too.

My LTC was a delayed one when I had it. I recovered from the initial comedown and then got symptoms out of nowhere again after getting dehydrated like 4 weeks later

The overtraining you're referring to is like the type of training that you would do to run a marathon or for the Iron Man triathlon.

Same thing for the dehydration. They're talking about life-threatening levels of dehydration.

 

[ZeroLuck]

The overtraining you're referring to is like the type of training that you would do to run a marathon or for the Iron Man triathlon.

Same thing for the dehydration. They're talking about life-threatening levels of dehydration.

Do you have an opinion over the memories issues? Feel like that’s my only issue left…

 

[Jabberwocky]

Do you have an opinion over the memories issues? Feel like that’s my only issue left…

Elevated cortisol. Elevated cortisol levels have been tied to poor episodic memory.

MDMA acutely increases cortisol 800% normal levels. If the HPA axis dysfunction and elevated norepinephrine, low magnesium is not resolve quickly, chronically elevated cortisol can result which will result in brain fog and poor episodic memory.

 

[Veebonacci]

Do you have an opinion over the memories issues? Feel like that’s my only issue left…

It amazes me how people can just skip right over a potential solution that’s extremely low risk/ high reward well good luck to you guys

 

[semisober]

It amazes me how people can just skip right over a potential solution that’s extremely low risk/ high reward well good luck to you guys

I think a lot of (most?) the folks in here who have been dealing with this for a long time have been supplementing with Magnesium regularly throughout that period. I personally have done so for several years. Perhaps my dosage is too low? It is possible. I'm definitely open to trying a much more dedicated regimen.

Elevated cortisol. Elevated cortisol levels have been tied to poor episodic memory.

MDMA acutely increases cortisol 800% normal levels. If the HPA axis dysfunction and elevated norepinephrine, low magnesium is not resolve quickly, chronically elevated cortisol can result which will result in brain fog and poor episodic memory.

Shouldn't these systems return to homeostasis eventually? Is this dysregulation really going to persist for years without a more structural injury to the neural circuits involved with memory formation / retrieval?