[Methoxetamine Subthread] Addiction

[Jesusgreen]

bigcol75, I really hope you can stop. I'll jump on 6-APB first so I can get back on topic, but doing it once a week is likely to be very bad for you, given it's similarities to MDxx - just as if you were to do MDMA or MDA once a week, you need to take breaks of at least a month (more if you're doing it consecutively and not just a few times here and there) between uses or you're likely to suffer a lot of serotonergic neurotoxicity, along with simply losing the magic and not enjoying it.

Heavy/binge drinking as you know can damage the kidneys, liver, bladder, heart.. the whole body really, and combining it with other drugs will further worsen those effects. Although neither is advisable, it's safer to drink smaller amounts more often than to go all out on a few days.

Methoxetamine was developed through rational drug design to be a significantly more potent alternative to Ketamine, which would allow users to consume smaller amounts, meaning it would be easier to avoid kidney/bladder damage due to the irritant effects. 1g a week is not a small amount though, and a lot of people are doing this amount or even much more and expecting to be trouble free - but it's likely to act in a similar way to Ketamine and so these kind of amounts will cause long-lasting damage.

I think you should be more than "inclined" to put it down. Even if you'd like to continue your use, you've seen the damage first hand and you really need to take a break. I wish you the best of luck, and the same goes for anyone here battling addiction

 

[the toad]

sweet mother of mercy dude, WHAT? how... I mean... what the fuck. You're saying you was doing a gram A DAY? I seriously don't compute that.

Yea it started out with 20-40mg a couple times a week and ended up as a half a gram a day on work days and at least a gram or even sometimes as much as two grams a day on party days...

 

[lynx2051]

I have about 500mg a week.

 

[lynx2051]

bigcol75, I really hope you can stop. I'll jump on 6-APB first so I can get back on topic, but doing it once a week is likely to be very bad for you, given it's similarities to MDxx - just as if you were to do MDMA or MDA once a week, you need to take breaks of at least a month (more if you're doing it consecutively and not just a few times here and there) between uses or you're likely to suffer a lot of serotonergic neurotoxicity, along with simply losing the magic and not enjoying it.

Heavy/binge drinking as you know can damage the kidneys, liver, bladder, heart.. the whole body really, and combining it with other drugs will further worsen those effects. Although neither is advisable, it's safer to drink smaller amounts more often than to go all out on a few days.

Methoxetamine was developed through rational drug design to be a significantly more potent alternative to Ketamine, which would allow users to consume smaller amounts, meaning it would be easier to avoid kidney/bladder damage due to the irritant effects. 1g a week is not a small amount though, and a lot of people are doing this amount or even much more and expecting to be trouble free - but it's likely to act in a similar way to Ketamine and so these kind of amounts will cause long-lasting damage.

I think you should be more than "inclined" to put it down. Even if you'd like to continue your use, you've seen the damage first hand and you really need to take a break. I wish you the best of luck, and the same goes for anyone here battling addiction

Could you tell me whether 200mg - 500mg a week is a lot? I normally take no more than 50mg in one session about every other day. It is just something nice to have in the evening.

 

[Jesusgreen]

It is quite a bit with the long term negative effects still being an unknown. I'd advise you to at the very least take a 2 week break or so every few weeks with absolutely no use.

At that level of use it'd likely take a very long time to damage your bladder and kidneys, but is it worth taking that risk? Better to stay on the safe side and do too little than too much, plus that way you can avoid tolerance.

I'd suspect it'd be better to dose once or twice a week, even if it means taking a little more - than every day/other day.

 

[hamhurricane]

The article infers that MXE's affinity for the µ-opioid receptor is negligible, but I contest this assertion. On a hefty dose of Methoxetamine (~125mg plugged) I was orbiting the rings of Neptune to such an extent that I yearned for sleep and peace. I had an 8mg Buprenorphine / 2 mg Nalaxone sublingual strip, and cut it into eight pieces. The moment I let 1 mg of the Suboxone dissolve, I went into immediate, intense opiate withdrawal. Despite what the following excerpt from the article says,it is my experience that MXE exerts a clinically significant effect on the µ-opioid receptors.

I'm not sure I understand this logic. Why would suboxone cause you to go into withdrawal while on methoxetamine? Even if the methoxetamine does have some affinity for the MOR surely it pales in comparison to the extremely high affinity of buprenorphine, which is itself higher than the affinity of naloxone. Are you suggesting that the naloxone displaced both the buprenorphine and the methoxetamine and caused you to go into withdrawl and, if so, how is that evidence that methoxetamine is a potent MOR agonist?

Also 125mg of rectal methoxetamine is not a particularly good state to subjectively evaluate the pharmacology of a drug.

 

[bluedolphin]

- What is your daily/weekly/monthy consumption?

I guess when I have it I do approximately 150mg over the course of a normal day and maybe more if I'm at a party or something.

- For how long have you been doing it? And how, if at all, your pattern of use has changed? (increase dosages, changed ROA, etc.

For about 11 months. I have experimented with all ROA except needles and found sniffing it works best for me. Early on I tried higher doses and M-Hole and found it to be interesting, I guess, but lower doses give me more of what I am seeking from this drug.

- What is your usual ROA?

Most often insufflated. In doses of about 10mg - 20mg... occasionally more but not often. I do this a few times a day to maintain a level of positive energy and antidepressant effects as well as more physical energy and creative drive.

- Do you feel you are addicted? If yes, do you think you can stop?

Not really. I have been addicted (for real) to benzos, opiates, and to a lesser degree, ketamine, amphetamines, cocaine, GHB, alcohol, and cannabis. Probably some other minor addictions I can't remember as well. I tend to let myself become mildly addicted to a lot of things, at least in the past, and then overcome the addiction. Obviously there are some addictions I will never repeat. Ones that really fucked my life... namely benzos, ketamine, and amphetamines. I might be an unusual case but I have found myself to be stronger than just about every drug I've dabbled in. I sit here now writing this with a drink of alcohol, a couple grams of kratom, and maybe 15mg of MXE in my system. Feeling fairly mellow.

Can I stop? Yes, easily. See below.

- Have you tried to quit? or do you want to stop using it?

Yes I have "quit" MXE several times. Because it's not good to do anything continually forever, right? So I tend to use it for a couple weeks and take a week off, and then get some more and use it for a couple weeks and then take a week or two off. During the time I use it, I use it repeatedly every day. I find it helps me wake up in the morning, and makes it easier to fall asleep and get a nice restful sleep at night as well. So, that works out.

- Do you have any withdrawal symptoms?

After using MXE repeatedly for weeks, if I stop all of a sudden (ie, I ran out), I will experience being somewhat more tired than usual the next day. After that I am back to normal. No other withdrawls noticed, and I've done this on repeated occasions. No disruption in sleep. No disruption in mood, beyond eventually losing the mild hypomanic state of mind that continued MXE use tends to produce. Hypomania, by the way, is something I find very useful in every day life.

- How does MXE addiction compares to other drugs addiction? E.g. Tobacco, Cannabis, Heroin, Cocaine..

MXE is not addictive at all in my personal opinion. The hypomanic state of mind it produces might be addictive. But then again I also don't find Tobacco, Heroin, or Cocaine very addictive. Their benefits do not outweigh the negatives. And yes I have been "addicted" to all those drugs before but quit and dealt with the withdrawls/cravings because I made a choice to quit.

MXE's addictiveness is probably best compared to Ketamine's. In which it is a purely psychological addiction that will grip some people much more than others. For me, Ketamine was, at one time in my life, a huge addiction. Now, I can do Ketamine whenever I want and not desire any more. My life has changed. Addiction is no longer acceptable. I have way too much going for me right now.

So if that's the case, why do I continue to use MXE? I find that I can work faster, be less bored, and be more motivated to go above and beyond with a small amount of MXE in my system. I am using it like an antidepressant drug, basically. And that's exactly what it feels like to me. Except I've tried other kinds of pharmaceutical antidepressants like SSRIs and SNRIs and other atypical ones that made me feel like shit. This feels like what an antidepressant is supposed to feel like.

Like I've said, I've stopped using it for various periods of time, and right now I'm back on the train. Am I concerned about running out? Not at all. It's something I can pick up, basically binge on in low doses, and put right down and feel pretty good in the weeks or months afterwards.


This post isn't meant to brag or anything like that. But it is meant to be a sincere contribution to this thread. And I do respect those who have posted before me and told their stories of actually bad MXE addictions. That just isn't the case for me, and I don't believe it's the case for most people who get into this drug.

I also don't want to sound like a shill for MXE. I don't recommend people use it. I don't care if it becomes more popular and I also don't really care if it becomes illegal some day. In my experience so far the biggest risks with MXE are high blood pressure and risk of making a fool of yourself if you do too much in the wrong situation.

peace- BD

 

[Transcendence]

JSpete and Vaya both have great posts. I've had problems with opiate, benzo, and cannabis addiction before. MXE is easily the most psychologically addictive substance I've ever used. It's so subtle in its seduction. It's such a wonderful drug at first - basically everything I'd ever want in a drug. It's my Soma. I describe it as "relief from the human condition". But that's not really accurate; addiction and habituation is part of the human condition as well.

I do not feel like I can trust myself around this drug, and at the same time I don't imagine for an instant that I won't order it anymore. My use of it almost immediately escalates to the point where I'm doing lines and holding it under my tongue several times a day. If I have MXE, I want to be on it for all of my waking hours.

The kicker: after a couple days of daily dosing I just feel vaguely dissociated - it's not even fun anymore. But I still can't stop doing it! I guess that's drug addiction at the core. Like JSpete, it got to the point where I would be crying as I railed line after line. I've taken it before exams several times because it somehow seems reasonable at the moment.

Vaya described the bermuda triangle of addiction perfectly. We've seen how bad ketamine addiction can get. I think MXE has the potential to be much, much worse. Most addictive drug on the planet? Well I guess it was just a matter of time before someone cooked up an RC like this.

Bluedolphin: I've enjoyed reading your posts since I've joined Bluelight and it's obvious to me you are a very intelligent person. But I cannot wrap my mind around how you can admit to taking a drug everyday (in significant amounts) for a year straight and go on to claim that it's not addictive in the same breath. I think it's pretty much textbook denial.

 

[bluedolphin]

If I had taken it every day for a year straight that would be a different story. I've used it for almost a year but have taken numerous breaks which lasted one, two, or four weeks. During these breaks I did not feel withdrawls or cravings for more MXE.

Honestly when people come on here telling stories of being addicted to MXE I wonder if they've ever used real hard drugs. Perhaps then they might have a different idea of what real addiction is. If you become addicted to MXE it's because you let yourself become addicted.

I do not let myself become addicted because 1) It's not something I find very addictive in the first place, and 2) I take as much time off from using the drug as I do using it.


edit:

I do understand that many people will assume based on my pattern of use that I must be in denial. I'm not the type of person to be in denial about many things. I constantly learn, adapt, and then admit what went wrong in the first place. This is why I speak openly of past addictions and you won't see me on this forum encouraging reckless use of drugs. Usually I am telling people to take it easy on their doses and patterns of use.

And if people are suggesting that for me. One on hand, I know myself best. On another hand, I respect where you are coming from.

So, starting today I will take three weeks off MXE. Even though I have approximately 3 grams left. So it's not like I ran out and have to order more, I will have it sitting right in front of me the whole time.

Why not take more than 3 weeks off? Because I didn't buy it for nothing I'll take another 2-4 week break after I finish up this stash.


If I use any MXE between now and then I will come on here and admit it. And you can decide for yourself if I have used it based on "addiction" or just because I might have got bored at some point between now and then.

peace!

 

[the toad]

^ yea I agree... quitting IV dilaudid and blow was hard... this stuff is easy... no withdrawals or depression or nasty cravings... not saying it should be used all the time either... I tried that for a while and it got lame... that's why I'm on break now fore 2 months... ill probly wait till feb or march just cuz I don't have any special occasions that warrant its use... maybe new years but that will probly consist of mdma and ket lol

 

[Transcendence]

Heroin was considered a non-addictive morphine substitute for several years before people thought better of it. Benzos were considered to be a non-addictive barbituate substitute for several years after being introduced.

Even you acknowledge that ketamine is horribly addictive over time. To think that MXE is a non-addictive ketamine substitute is silly, even if you can stop for a couple weeks. I fucked around with opiates for years before they caught up to me. When they did, I lost a year of my life (that is, I got out easy compared to many). Look, maybe you're special, I don't know. Kinda doubt it, but whatever. Maybe I'm not hardcore and I don't know what "real" addiction is because I haven't spent a decade with a needle in my arm. That's cool, I'm not interested in ever finding out.

I was able to stop my MXE use for five months without ordering it again. I didn't suffer any permanent damage. I didn't ruin my life on the stuff. For what it's worth.

I've never ever even come close to having a problem with alcohol, but I would never suggest that alcohol isn't incredibly addictive for some people and that drinking everyday for a long period of time won't cause serious mental and physical health problems. What is "letting yourself" be addicted to something? Clue me in, but isn't that pretty much the way every addiction works?

Hay guys, I just had an epiphany: people who get addicted to heroin are just letting themselves get addicted! It wouldn't be a problem if they just spaced out their use and took a break every once in a while. Hot damn, I'm headed over to Other Drugs now to spread the good word.

 

[Albion]

I'm 100% with Transcendence here. It's plain to see that addiction is a slow burning thing that can often bide its time before escalating into something more obvious. Some people fall into it near instantly - Naivety and/or lack of greater responsibility leading to unrestrained use. With opiates it only takes a few days of consecutive use for the physical dependence to set in, but with drugs like MXE, the problem isn't so much a physical dependence but a psychological one. A psychological dependence could span a lifetime, even if a user abstains for great periods of time. When I'm 60, I'll still have a fondness of MXE. I probably won't be taking it any more but I'd still want to feel its effects. I'd probably still take it if it was available. Even if I abstained for the next 40 years, I'd still have that mindset and I'd personally class that as a psychological addiction. Not a problematic one or one that requires treatment for, but an addiction nonetheless

 

[the toad]

I'm not saying mxe isn't addicting... imjust saying compared to booze, opiates, blow, benzos, herb, mcdonalds food, sodas, coffee and other addicting stuff... mxe is easy to quit if you just decide to do it... no shitty moods or witdrawals or horrible cravings or anything like that... perhaps a passing thought here and there of "hey some mxe would be fun right now" but that's about it...

 

[bluedolphin]

I'm 100% with Transcendence here. It's plain to see that addiction is a slow burning thing that can often bide its time before escalating into something more obvious. Some people fall into it near instantly - Naivety and/or lack of greater responsibility leading to unrestrained use. With opiates it only takes a few days of consecutive use for the physical dependence to set in, but with drugs like MXE, the problem isn't so much a physical dependence but a psychological one. A psychological dependence could span a lifetime, even if a user abstains for great periods of time. When I'm 60, I'll still have a fondness of MXE. I probably won't be taking it any more but I'd still want to feel its effects. I'd probably still take it if it was available. Even if I abstained for the next 40 years, I'd still have that mindset and I'd personally class that as a psychological addiction. Not a problematic one or one that requires treatment for, but an addiction nonetheless

I guess now that I understand your definition of "addiction", I understand why we disagree. I would not call having a remote fondness or preference for a substance that you can remember years later and would still be willing to try it again anything close to "addiction".

I've been to AA and NA meetings and dealt with real addictions in other ways on my own. IMO the word addiction gets tossed around sort of lightly. For me, having been through the hells of serious benzo addiction which led to hospitalization and seizures and temporary schizophrenia upon withdrawl ... and also moderate opiate addictions and binging on cocaine and methamphetamine and other kinds of hard drugs... also GHB and shit like that... maybe you can see where I'm coming from.

Is MXE addictive? Okay, I guess. About as much as caffeine is. But on the scale of 1-10 on the substance addictiveness scale MXE can't be any higher than a 2.


Also having been through all kinds of addictions and beaten them, physical and psychological and combined, I no longer consider purely psychological addictions to be true addictions. It's just a matter of making up your mind and quitting.

We could be having this same conversation about Ketamine, which I probably snorted about a kilogram of the stuff over a year and a half time. I've only used it less than a handful of times in the last year and didn't really enjoy it and don't plan to ever do it again. So am I really addicted?


What it comes down to is some people are simply stronger willed than others, and that's something a lot of you aren't willing to admit here. Especially if you happen to find yourself "addicted" to a substance that really isn't that addictive. Wake up. It's not the drugs as much as it is you.

 

[the toad]

I think people are confusing compulsion to use with addiction... addiction means you can't stop... compulsion means you choose to... if you can take a couple days off of it and not have a meltdown then your not addicted...

Even the heaviest of mxe users report that taking a day or two to a month or two off and not having any major issues... you won't find any heroin addicts that don't mind going a few days without while they await their next shipment in the mail...

 

[eye_wide_open]

Yes, it's quite addictive.
I'd like more now but I know I've been pretty far on it. You could say I am satisfied with where it took me. Farther than anything else ever has while I consciously knew about it.
I don't have money and don't want to risk sending it to my house.
I don't have friends who will accept the risk either.

If it doesn't become illegal soon I'll probably try it again later down the line. Another month or two.

I prefer about 200mg a dose as mention earlier. This makes sure I go somewhere. lol
I have no tolerance to anything but weed.

I've only done it like twice.
Two of the most amazing experiences ever next to DMT.

 

[eye_wide_open]

One thing I'd like to add...
Since I don't think I can ever get as physically or mentally addicted as some of the folks here to this substance for reasons beyond my control such as money and delivery etc etc etc...
Thanks to whoever the heck sent me on that journey! haha
I'm very glad I was able to partake.
Feels like my life was leading up to this experience.

KEEP THE USE IN MODERATION

Advice taken. Thank you sir. Thanks for your story. I hope all the best to you.
Having kicked cigs and meth myself I know what an addiction can really be.
Can hardly imagine how you have felt being addicted to something this powerful.

 

[bluedolphin]

Yes, it's quite addictive.

I prefer about 200mg a dose as mention earlier. This makes sure I go somewhere. lol
I have no tolerance to anything but weed.

I've only done it like twice.

Okay, this is what I'm talking about. lol

You've done it twice, in 200mg doses, and claim it's quite addictive. And the only drug you have a "tolerance" to is weed.

I'm starting to think this is something grown ups won't consider addictive but kids who have no self control and no idea of what real addiction is will think they are addicted to MXE.

Guess what kids. It's not "cool" to claim to be addicted to something you're really not. And if you think you are, grow up, stop using it, and see if you're actually addicted.

You'll know addiction when it bites you in the ass because when you stop using a drug you're addicted to you feel like SHIT and it can in some cases cause severe medical problems, some of which can be life threatening, depending on the drug.

 

[Jesusgreen]

^ I don't think you have to be addicted to know if a drug is addictive or not. It's pretty easy to tell that most of these dissociatives are very addictive. I find that's true with MXE too, and it's easy to get trapped into using it even when you shouldn't, simply because A) it feels so good, B) it's easy to go about your day to day routine (at sub M-hole doses) and C) it feels very therapeutic and useful.

It's a psychological addiction, but definitely a strong one. I personally found Ketamine to be more addictive than Methoxetamine - mainly due to it's short duration meaning you can pretty much hole any time if you plan it out and can get 40-60 minutes free. That said though, I find Methoxetamine to be quite an addictive drug, and I find it quite hard not to dose when the temptation kicks in.

That said, I find addiction to dissociatives can usually be resolved in a very simple way - not buying any more and smoking some weed or getting drunk or something. Taking a completely different drug usually makes you forget about your dissociative of choice long enough for the cravings to disappear. It worked for me after I abused Ketamine for a long time - I just bought weed instead of Ketamine one day, and took my mind off it, and voila, I stopped using it for a long long time!

Despite this being addictive I think most strong-willed individuals should have no problems with this. However, I could imagine that buying very large stashes would lead to some issues for sure

 

[eye_wide_open]

using a drug you're addicted to you feel like SHIT

Like nicotine for instance?
The legal government designer drug.
That one had me and all my money for 15 years. Finally saw through it.

I can tell when I want something more and it can be addicting.
Speed was a great teacher too.

For MXE, I can feel the want surging through my veins already. Very powerful.
Addictive first go. Just my highly inexperienced opinion.. as noted.