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Opioids Oxycodone patient forced into cold turkey

MsDiz

Moderator: DS
Staff member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
6,780
Location
Ireland
I'm really sorry for how this sounded. I don't want to act like I'm diagnosing or recommending a specific medication for a specific medical condition. I'm speaking completely as a layperson with an admittedly small understanding of literally all of the conditions which you have just described @MsDiz and that our original poster has experienced.

Think of me speaking purely as someone commenting on the political/legal/practical side of things. For many, many people out there in the United States (I can really only speak for my country), Opioids are not prescribed in significant quantities. If I hear someone saying "Hey, I really need to be on Opioids, but nobody is prescribing them and I'm running out of options", I sadly have to say that the Methadone clinic is the only actual option for a lot of folks.

...and it's a shitty option at that. I've known people who have moved from pain management to the Methadone clinic who now are in severe pain and dependent on Methadone. So, please try to understand I feel like my hands are tied in that all of the options I can give from where I stand are not actual solutions to the problem.

If someone says they want to be on Opioids, there's the clinic. That doesn't mean it's an actual solution to their problem, it just means it's a place that will give them Opioids and again, I apologize if that was misguided or insensitive. It's not a fair system out there right now.
Maybe you should rethink your advice. For those with addictions then the clinic might be the place for them, for those with pain conditions, you’ve said yourself… they end up still in pain and also addicted to methadone.
 

Keif' Richards

Moderator: BDD, OD
Staff member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
7,021
Location
Lowell/Charlestown, Massachusetts
Maybe you should rethink your advice. For those with addictions then the clinic might be the place for them, for those with pain conditions, you’ve said yourself… they end up still in pain and also addicted to methadone.

That's fair. Again, @msdand everyone else, I'm sorry if this was insensitive or irresponsible.

I really meant to highlight that there are not a lot of great options out there right now. That sucks, it's depressing. I know.

To highlight all of the details of what I was thinking will take a moment and I'm on my phone presently.

In short, Methadone is an Opioid and many have found chronic relief from their pain by using it. Perhaps not the condition specified by our original poster, but you also have to cut me some slack. I'm not q doctor. I'm not as well-versed as you in the treatment of these conditions.

Second, when I talk about "the clinic" I'm not referring to just the drug methadone. The clinic itself is a byword for a microcosm of politics, crime and addiction of its own. There are pitfalls that come with attending a clinic, most glaringly, the fact that many attendees are in active, heavy poly-substance addiction and one is forced to visit this place every day. It is a place that can help people get better, but sometimes makes people much worse. I don't think this is due to the effects of Methadone itself however.

A problem that you will face with the clinic, is that you have to attend every single day. Methadone when used for pain management is best-administered three times daily. It can hold a person from going into withdrawal for 24 hours, but it's analgesia is strongest for 6-8 hours in most people. The way clinics are operating in the current climate, post-covid, is much more liberal than they have been historically. A person who does the right things and passes their drug tests can have weekly pick ups within 3 months. You can have every other day pick ups within a couple of weeks. So, it's not impossible, but there are many hoops to jump through.

Once you have your weekly pick ups, you could then self-administer the Methadone in a way that works best for your pain. It's not ideal, but we are not living in a world where pain patients are entitled to their ideal treatment. You sometimes have to make sacrifices, so if an Opioid is required, even if Methadone is not the best choice, it could be used as part of a comprehensive treatment protocol featuring other, non-chemical means of treatment.

I'm not a doctor and I don't have the knowledge of these conditions as some of you do. I am here to do my best for Harm Reduction. I'm not a pain management specialist. I don't think it's fair to jump down my throat. The Methadone clinic can be used as a great tool, but it can also be a place of great temptation. My answer regarding going to the clinic and "getting worse" was more complex than the few sentences that I originally typed. In the current climate of minimal Opioid prescribing, the options have to be correspondingly desperate.
 
Last edited:

Señor Moreno

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
508
I see what you mean, and your main point is absolutely right: trying to manage pain with street opioids is a big no-no.
Op has a dual condition where she/he is a paint patient and has developed a pharma dependence (maybe also addiction).
I think, if possible, op should try her/his best to firstly focus on the dependence side of things, it would be great to taper and quit oxy with the tools that have been said, clonidine, kratom, lope, his/ her Lyrica script would be useful here too.
Then he/ she will be in so much better place to fight pain with Lyrica, baclofen or wathever, bit also with methods such as physiotherapy and others that MsDiz has pointed.
I'm really sorry for how this sounded. I don't want to act like I'm diagnosing or recommending a specific medication for a specific medical condition. I'm speaking completely as a layperson with an admittedly small understanding of literally all of the conditions which you have just described @MsDiz and that our original poster has experienced.

Think of me speaking purely as someone commenting on the political/legal/practical side of things. For many, many people out there in the United States (I can really only speak for my country), Opioids are not prescribed in significant quantities. If I hear someone saying "Hey, I really need to be on Opioids, but nobody is prescribing them and I'm running out of options", I sadly have to say that the Methadone clinic is the only actual option for a lot of folks.

...and it's a shitty option at that. I've known people who have moved from pain management to the Methadone clinic who now are in severe pain and dependent on Methadone. So, please try to understand I feel like my hands are tied in that all of the options I can give from where I stand are not actual solutions to the problem.

If someone says they want to be on Opioids, there's the clinic. That doesn't mean it's an actual solution to their problem, it just means it's a place that will give them Opioids and again, I apologize if that was misguided or insensitive. It's not a fair system out there right now.
 

Keif' Richards

Moderator: BDD, OD
Staff member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
7,021
Location
Lowell/Charlestown, Massachusetts
I see what you mean, and your main point is absolutely right: trying to manage pain with street opioids is a big no-no.
Op has a dual condition where she/he is a paint patient and has developed a pharma dependence (maybe also addiction).
I think, if possible, op should try her/his best to firstly focus on the dependence side of things, it would be great to taper and quit oxy with the tools that have been said, clonidine, kratom, lope, his/ her Lyrica script would be useful here too.
Then he/ she will be in so much better place to fight pain with Lyrica, baclofen or wathever, bit also with methods such as physiotherapy and others that MsDiz has pointed.

Thanks for the support. I feel the same. There are some other drugs that might help and the Gabapentinoids would be up there on my list of potential's along with maybe, non-addictive muscle relaxants like Cyclobenzaprine (Felexeril) for example.

With medications sort of hemmed in and he's no longer feeling crazy, he immediately needs to start whatever else is needed for his total mental/physical health. Whether addiction is an issue or not, I don't think it's bad to proactively address mental health, just to make sure you're stable.

Perhaps you could find lasting relief with a modest amount of Methadone, other medications and physical work to help alleviate the pain through non-chemical avenues. You would be doing everything by the book on paper. Nobody would need to know (nor would they likely care) if you're dividing your dose up throughout the day. After a few weeks of growing pains, you would have ongoing access to Opioid pain medication.
 

Rainman1964

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
135
Location
California
Forgive me if I sound offensive, but in my experiences, in every instance such as this, there is always more to the story. There is never any MD who is going to stop a medication in the way it is being said by the author here without more elements at play. It just does not happen. It is against the law and that doctor would lose her medical license. See the American Medical Association and the Uniform Penal Code.
 

crzydiamond

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
1,032
Location
PA, USA
If you want buprenorphine consider an online dr like Ophelia. Bupe is said to be good for chronic pain though I don’t have personal experience with chronic pain

It’s very easy to sign up

I paid nothing for visit and $1 for a script.

I have medical assistance insurance and I never knew sub dr would take it cause around me they were all self pay.

These ppl checked n said my insurance was in network and I had an appt a couple days later. Got prescription at the online Zoom visit ( they sent directly to pharmacy; I picked up an hour later)

It’s all online. Telehealth I think is what it’s called now

The pandemic made this possible as the prescribing laws for bupe in the US were relaxed
 

Jennn

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
553
I know it's Noone favorite but have you thought of methadone? It's excellent for pain and easy to get.
I would only take lope as recommended, bad for your heart.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I suffer from MS but thankfully I have a cool doctor.
 

Jennn

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
553
Forgive me if I sound offensive, but in my experiences, in every instance such as this, there is always more to the story. There is never any MD who is going to stop a medication in the way it is being said by the author here without more elements at play. It just does not happen. It is against the law and that doctor would lose her medical license. See the American Medical Association and the Uniform Penal Code.
Not true. I had a new doctor cut me off pain meds because he didn't think my pain was that bad. Luckily I found another doctor. Some are to scared to lose their license or just a holes.
 

Rainman1964

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Messages
135
Location
California
Not true. I had a new doctor cut me off pain meds because he didn't think my pain was that bad. Luckily I found another doctor. Some are to scared to lose their license or just a holes.
Hi Jenn,

Ok. Was it in the U.S.? Were there other related circumstances like other medications you are taking in addition to the pain meds? What did your file contain that the new doctor had access to give her information to help her determine her decision? Did she even have a file of your medical history? And if so, was it accurate?

The instances to which it is illegal in my initial thread (see above), I was referring to the individual that stated the doctor confiscated her medication physically in a different situation that was sounding like a scenario where statutes were broken,
 

OpiateKiller

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
2,314
Yeah getting Suboxone in the US is almost as easy as getting a pack of cigarettes. Just search MAT clinics. You can get on methadone easy too. Just tell them you take oxy and need to stop
 

Painful One

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
4,093
The problem I find with Kratom is that even using it for a few days to get by until next prescription of MORPHINE raises my tolerance like crazy while using a small dosage of loperamide doesn’t.
You have to keep that dosage of lope low though.

I hope the O.P. is alright.
 
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