☮ Social ☮ PD Social Talk Thread 2022-2023 v. Year of the Phenethylamine

[unodelacosa]

I took a look and unedited it.

Much obliged I'm grateful for your level-headed balance.

Vis-à-vis criticism, Oscar Wilde wrote: “The critic has to educate the public; the artist has to educate the critic.”
I'm not out to hurt anyone's feelings; you know that about me by now I hope.

I felt it was rather harsh, but it doesn't break any rules.

Harsh how? The violin emoji that BL provides?

Look, @Chris Timothy goes:

“but it makes getting a backup degree so much more isolating an experience if you can't even have a proper online human connection about what you're filling your day with.” (☜ say what?)​

He's complaining his backup degree ( backup … srsly?) school feels isolating due to the lack of “proper online human connection”. I suggested maybe he's holding the school to an unrealistic standard in a post also about tinnitus and MDMA, a post you liked with a thumbs up.

Then @Chris Timothy writes:

"Alas, tinnitus is more of a symptom than a syndrome, catch-all approaches are all longshots. I've written a multi-page thread about it somewhere here on PD. Nobody cared about all the details, but serotonergics are generally awful for a broken inner ear."​

​

So I wrote back the post in question, a post that ends with: "but seriously, don't let it get you down. One love, my guy."

This is what bugs me out. You didn't just "like" that comment; you actually responded to it with the "love / heart" reaction. Again to reiterate, you responded to the post you say is harsh with a "love" reaction. Do you see what I'm saying?

I do think you were probably trying to be helpful, although the tone was somewhat mocking, I thought.

“Somewhat mocking”? Ok, how? The dictionary says: "to tease or laugh in a scornful or contemptuous way." There's no scorn or contempt here, I assure you. No mockery. I ended the comment saying "one love" and meaning those words 100%.

And anyway you reacted to my comment with a before it was edited.

And yes, of course I was trying to be helpful. I like @Chris Timothy and that's why I posted what I posted. If I didn't, I wouldn't have bothered to say anything at all. If I sound rude, I dunno, maybe it's bc I'm from New York.

I guess someone thought it was too much for this thread, but I don't think it was so I reverted ot.

Thanks again. And to the mod who edited my post initially, I realize you're under no obligations to do this, but pls message me next time so I can learn to write better in terms of conveying mood properly. Seriously, I'm asking you this in all earnest. My communications skills must be deplorable if my posts can be mistaken to this degree.

 

[Xorkoth]

Well, obviously I saw that you were offering advice and trying to be helpful to him, which I appreciate. But I will say this, even though I don't really think this thread is really the place to be hashing out grievances. For whatever reason, you fairly regularly come across in a condescending manner. The violin emoji evokes the phrase/idea "I'm playing the world's smallest violin for you", which is another way of saying "oh, cry me a river", "buck up", etc. That is what made enough people react that there were two reports about it. Someone came in here and posted looking for support from their community... they don't want to be met with "oh, boo-hoo". If you read the rest of your post, which I did, there is helpful advice and it ends nicely. But I guess some other people didn't get that from it. And I've got to say that I have been rubbed the wrong way by your posts sometimes, too. I'm not sure what it is exactly, but maybe this can shed some light on exactly what it is. I can give another example from the post I'm replying to right now:

Look, @Chris Timothy goes:
“but it makes getting a backup degree so much more isolating an experience if you can't even have a proper online human connection about what you're filling your day with.” (☜ say what?)
He's complaining his backup degree ( backup … srsly?)

It comes across as mocking/dismissive, to me. I'm not exactly sure how to articulate why... just something about it. Maybe it's a New York thing, I don't know... my ex-bandmate from New York often strikes me as rude, too. But I know he isn't meaning to be, and when his friend from New York came to visit, it showed me more about how you guys have a different way of communicating, and it's been easier for me to not take personally from my bandmate since then.

But I think the reason people had a problem with your post that we're talking about is because of the violin thing, it just seemed like an unnecessary thing to add in response to someone coming here to vent. These two PD Social threads exist as a place to get support; people don't expect to be mocked when they come here. years ago, we worked hard to root the arrogant/mocking attitude out of PD that was prevalent here at that time, and changed the forum from a sort of elitists' club where they made fun of people asking basic questions, into a community where people felt comfortable coming for support and sharing their problems with people they like and respect. So people are protective of that culture. And there are ways to say things that can get across things people might not want to hear, but that also don't make them feel like their complaints are trivial or whatever.

Again, at the time, I read your whole post and felt overall good about it, and Chris Timothy himself wasn't complaining about it, so it overall left me with a heart-type feeling. I guess I was able to see what you intended, but others weren't, and I can understand why.

This post I am making is an attempt to help, as you requested, so I hope you take it as such.

 

[unodelacosa]

The violin emoji evokes the phrase/idea "I'm playing the world's smallest violin for you", which is another way of saying "oh, cry me a river", "buck up", etc.

Bingo. That's exactly what I'm saying. And it's not condescension whatsoever, just perspective. Everyone could stand to be a bit less sensitivo.

That is what made enough people react that there were two reports about it. Someone came in here and posted looking for support from their community... they don't want to be met with "oh, boo-hoo".

Yeah ok, but sometimes that's what people need to hear. There's a difference between criticizing and complaining. And my point with the emoji is: if that's a "rude" sentiment to the point of mod censorship, why is that emoji available on the site at all? The whole thing is just a funnier way of suggesting that someone stop complaining.

It comes across as mocking/dismissive, to me. I'm not exactly sure how to articulate why... just something about it.

The phrase is a light busting of someone's chops, yeah, but that doesn't make it "harsh", mocking, or dismissive… and certainly doesn't make it untrue. If someone can't handle that, they need to grow some thicker skin.

Maybe it's a New York thing, I don't know... my ex-bandmate from New York often strikes me as rude, too. But I know he isn't meaning to be, and when his friend from New York came to visit, it showed me more about how you guys have a different way of communicating, and it's been easier for me to not take personally from my bandmate since then.

Idk, I grew up on the east coast of Virginia near North Carolina, so originally I'm a good bit closer to your home state, homie. But I've lived in NY the past 12 years, Idk now. Maybe I'm just a dick…

But I think the reason people had a problem with your post that we're talking about is because of the violin thing, it just seemed like an unnecessary thing to add in response to someone coming here to vent.

Yeah I guess. Who knows? Fuck it. Can't please everybody. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Anyway thanks for restoring my original text, hearing me out, and taking time to respond. Oh and I appreciate the criticism and feedback I will reflect on it

 

[unodelacosa]

On a different note… I've recently discovered how awesome 25B-NBOH is. I had some reservations before delving into it because of the handful of deaths attributed to 25x-NBOMe psychedelics from 7 or 8 yrs ago. Some of those stories sound questionable though in terms of exact dose. Either way, the NBOH series is purportedly safer than the NBOMe drugs.

The doses I acquired were set in solid agar tablets. However, 25B-NBOH becomes inactive if ingested orally because our first pass metabolism breaks the drug down rapidly. At the same time, the agar doesn't dissolve sublingually, at least not without some chewing. That turned out to be the secret to activating this stuff – it needed to be chewed up properly over the course of, say, 15 minutes. This allowed the drug to work its way into my blood via the buccal and sublingual routes of administration.

What I like about 25B-NBOH is its combination of clean headspace with a powerful, beautiful, flowing, undulating menagerie of psychedelic visuals and a heightened sense of music appreciation. I felt inspired and very much alive, an avid human. It carries with it most of the entactogen qualities of 2C-B, both potentiating it and lengthening its duration. When it first hits, it comes on in a flurry of serotonin release that reminds me of the first rising waves of an MDMA frenzy. The buzzing gets louder and deeper and sonics increase in my own head. When I speak aloud it sounds like I'm mic'd up and there's a monitor in my head, if that makes any sense. I feel this one's definitely worth checking out and it has me interested in others of the 25x-NBOH series.

Oh I also like that I have zero problems eating food on 25B-NBOH. This is true of 2C-B and 2C-B-FLY, among other analogues and homologues of 2C-B. I consider this to be a real merit to the drug.

 

[simstim]

On a different note… I've recently discovered how awesome 25B-NBOH is. I had some reservations before delving into it because of the handful of deaths attributed to 25x-NBOMe psychedelics from 7 or 8 yrs ago. Some of those stories sound questionable though in terms of exact dose. Either way, the NBOH series is purportedly safer than the NBOMe drugs.

The doses I acquired were set in solid agar tablets. However, 25B-NBOH becomes inactive if ingested orally because our first pass metabolism breaks the drug down rapidly. At the same time, the agar doesn't dissolve sublingually, at least not without some chewing. That turned out to be the secret to activating this stuff – it needed to be chewed up properly over the course of, say, 15 minutes. This allowed the drug to work its way into my blood via the buccal and sublingual routes of administration.

What I like about 25B-NBOH is its combination of clean headspace with a powerful, beautiful, flowing, undulating menagerie of psychedelic visuals and a heightened sense of music appreciation. I felt inspired and very much alive, an avid human. It carries with it most of the entactogen qualities of 2C-B, both potentiating it and lengthening its duration. When it first hits, it comes on in a flurry of serotonin release that reminds me of the first rising waves of an MDMA frenzy. The buzzing gets louder and deeper and sonics increase in my own head. When I speak aloud it sounds like I'm mic'd up and there's a monitor in my head, if that makes any sense. I feel this one's definitely worth checking out and it has me interested in others of the 25x-NBOH series.

Oh I also like that I have zero problems eating food on 25B-NBOH. This is true of 2C-B and 2C-B-FLY, among other analogues and homologues of 2C-B. I consider this to be a real merit to the drug.

I've been loving 25b-NBOH as well. What dosage did you try it at?

I usually sniff between 3-8mg and that can be pretty intense so long as tolerance doesn't come into play. Also, when you sniff that much the visuals start almost instantly. It's insane.

I've tried 25i-NBOH, 25b-NBOH, and 25e-NBOH. I liked all three. Maybe more than the corresponding 2C drugs (I especially liked 25e-NBOH more than 2C-E). They are all certainly more active and intensely visual at high doses. Almost to the point of psychedelic induced blindness. You won't be reading anything that's for sure.

I would gladly try the NBF series or the NBMD series and have seen them ostensibly for sale. No telling if the site was legit or if it might be something else. Those kinds of sites.

 

[simstim]

@unodelacosa oral 25b-NBOH gets converted to 2C-B so it's not completely inactive but it would be an underdose of 2C-B. I'm not sure how complete the conversion is or how fast it happens.

I imagine it would be like clobenzorex (which is the N-benzyl-2-chloro, aka NBCl, derivative of amphetamine similar to NBF and NBOH series) where like 30-40% maybe gets converted to the primary amine amphetamine (I think that's what someone said in the clobenzorex thread) while the rest is circulating in the body unchanged (in the case of clobenzorex it circulates as 4-hydroxyclobenzorex).

 

[cosmic charlie]

Sad i didnt pick up the gram of 25b-NBOH when i had the chance, now that vendor has closed up shop sadly. Did get a gram of his O-PCE tho so thats something at least, what can you do. Have this other place also but its so much more cuz they sell it on blotters,

 

[Cream Gravy?]

25i-nBome was easily the most visual and hedonistic psychedelic I ever tried. But it left a terrible metallic taste in my mouth the whole trip and I’m pretty sure it did permanent damage/hppd of some sort to my brain. Ever since that summer when I was flush with it, I’ve had somewhat incessant light headaches and just generally had mild perceptual issues. But who knows, maybe that was just coincidence.

It was enough to turn me off the NBOHs for sure though. And the nBomes… yeah never would touch them with a ten and a half foot pole!

 

[JackARoe]

NBOHs are interesting to me in terms of the literature. They are nothing I would really want to try, but I will, for sure read the reports. I always thought the NBOM’s and NBOH’s came with some warnings as it is in the sticky thread. Not sure what the regular dose would be, but I imagine 10 mg is a very large dose. Interesting.

 

[Xorkoth]

25i-nBome was easily the most visual and hedonistic psychedelic I ever tried. But it left a terrible metallic taste in my mouth the whole trip and I’m pretty sure it did permanent damage/hppd of some sort to my brain. Ever since that summer when I was flush with it, I’ve had somewhat incessant light headaches and just generally had mild perceptual issues. But who knows, maybe that was just coincidence.

It was enough to turn me off the NBOHs for sure though. And the nBomes… yeah never would touch them with a ten and a half foot pole!

So many people have a similar story about that one in particular. 25i seems like it's the most dangerous of the NBOMes, at least the ones that were commonly available. I'm very rarely in agreement with prohibition, but I'm glad they banned those, because there was a time when a large percentage of all of the "acid" available was an NBOMe, usually 25i, and usually massively overdosed, too, to the point that people were dying from as little as 2 tabs. But now, years after they banned it, it's nowhere to be seen, and people aren't dying from totally normal amounts of blotter anymore.

 

[unodelacosa]

I've been loving 25b-NBOH as well. What dosage did you try it at?

Between 400µg and 800µg.

I usually sniff between 3-8mg and that can be pretty intense so long as tolerance doesn't come into play. Also, when you sniff that much the visuals start almost instantly. It's insane.

Wait, 3 - 8 mg? Are you sure? I believe snorting 3 to 8 mg of 25B-NBOH would be unsafe, potentially lethal. In fact, probably lethal. I have agar tablets dosed @ 400µg ea. Precludes insufflation, but I avoid snorting things usually anyway. Not worth the rhinitis and discomfort, but hey, that's just me.

At any rate, yeah, that would be equivalent to taking ~15 of these hits. Are we talking about the same drug? If it were 25B-NBOMe, that could wipe your map for sure. Is this not the case with 25B-NBOH?

EDIT: tripsit.me dosage for 25B-NBOH

I've tried 25i-NBOH, 25b-NBOH, and 25e-NBOH. I liked all three. Maybe more than the corresponding 2C drugs (I especially liked 25e-NBOH more than 2C-E). They are all certainly more active and intensely visual at high doses.

Yeah I've noticed the intense visuals coupled with clear headspace. I feel there's a connection to the root drug – 2C-B – as was the case with 25B-NBOMe. I'm certainly interested in 25I-NBOH's visuals, considering my 2C-I, 25I-NBOMe, and DOI experiences. For that matter, I'm interested in 2C-I-FLY and perhaps DOI-DragonFLY (Iodo-DragonFLY?).

I would gladly try the NBF series or the NBMD series and have seen them ostensibly for sale. No telling if the site was legit or if it might be something else. Those kinds of sites.

Define legit. A little reputation research goes a long way there.

@unodelacosa oral 25b-NBOH gets converted to 2C-B so it's not completely inactive but it would be an underdose of 2C-B. I'm not sure how complete the conversion is or how fast it happens.

Yeah makes me wonder if ingesting ~80 25x-NBOH hits would be like 20 mg of 2C-B or more like, idk, death?

EDIT: I saw 246-TMPEA-NBOMe for sale online maybe a year ago. I think it was also being called something like iso-mescaline-NBOMe-6. I wonder how the NBOH version is…

 

[unodelacosa]

I'm very rarely in agreement with prohibition, but I'm glad they banned those, because there was a time when a large percentage of all of the "acid" available was an NBOMe, usually 25i, and usually massively overdosed, too, to the point that people were dying from as little as 2 tabs. But now, years after they banned it, it's nowhere to be seen, and people aren't dying from totally normal amounts of blotter anymore.

I'm very rarely in disagreement with you, but no. Prohibition is not the answer. All of that bullshit mislabeling is the product of prohibition in the first place. You don't see that happening in the tobacco or alcohol industries…

 

[unodelacosa]

I've written a multi-page thread about it somewhere here on PD. Nobody cared about all the details

@Xorkoth – It's still being edited. This is censoring an animated gif made available by the site. If I'm not allowed to post it, why is it there? This is asinine.

And see here? Look what I'm doing. I'm commenting this on myself, ok? It's not that serious… this is me right now being a whiny petulant little baby, prolly just hating bc I wish I were working on a backup degree…

And but still, this is main man @Chris Timothy:

 

[Psychestim]

So many people have a similar story about that one in particular. 25i seems like it's the most dangerous of the NBOMes, at least the ones that were commonly available.

25I was by far the most commonly distributed NBOMe during that era so it‘s not surprising that it seemingly lead to the most issues.

I saw 246-TMPEA-NBOMe for sale online maybe a year ago. I think it was also being called something like iso-mescaline-NBOMe-6. I wonder how the NBOH version is…

I‘d expect this one to require much higher doses than the others, apart from let‘s say mescaline-NBOMe or lophophine-NBOMe. There was a guy on here that claimed to have some regular 2,4,6-TMPEA a while ago but unfortunately he never reported back. He did note that an active dose of 2,4,6-TMPEA was somewhere in the 150-250mg range, if I recall correctly.

 

[simstim]

Between 400µg and 800µg.


Wait, 3 - 8 mg? Are you sure? I believe snorting 3 to 8 mg of 25B-NBOH would be unsafe, potentially lethal. In fact, probably lethal. I have agar tablets dosed @ 400µg ea. Precludes insufflation, but I avoid snorting things usually anyway. Not worth the rhinitis and discomfort, but hey, that's just me.

At any rate, yeah, that would be equivalent to taking ~15 of these hits. Are we talking about the same drug? If it were 25B-NBOMe, that could wipe your map for sure. Is this not the case with 25B-NBOH?

EDIT: tripsit.me dosage for 25B-NBOH


Yeah I've noticed the intense visuals coupled with clear headspace. I feel there's a connection to the root drug – 2C-B – as was the case with 25B-NBOMe. I'm certainly interested in 25I-NBOH's visuals, considering my 2C-I, 25I-NBOMe, and DOI experiences. For that matter, I'm interested in 2C-I-FLY and perhaps DOI-DragonFLY (Iodo-DragonFLY?).


Define legit. A little reputation research goes a long way there.


Yeah makes me wonder if ingesting ~80 25x-NBOH hits would be like 20 mg of 2C-B or more like, idk, death?

EDIT: I saw 246-TMPEA-NBOMe for sale online maybe a year ago. I think it was also being called something like iso-mescaline-NBOMe-6. I wonder how the NBOH version is…

Apparently the NBOH series is not as toxic as the NBOMe's.

I have had 25i-NBOH up to 7mg several times intranasal, 25e-NBOH up to about 6mg sublingually, and now 25b-NBOH up to 10mg intranasal.

They're all intense at those dosages.

Definitely not for everyone. I gave my buddy about 3-4mg intranasal and it was way too much for him. He had a difficult experience and told me never to do that to anyone again, lol.

I thought he would be prepared for it since we recently did escaline, MAL, AMT, and DOC. He thought it was much too intense and wasn't prepared for it. Also when you snort an NBOH it hits quickly like a ton of bricks.

 

[blistersinthedark]

I'm very rarely in disagreement with you, but no. Prohibition is not the answer. All of that bullshit mislabeling is the product of prohibition in the first place. You don't see that happening in the tobacco or alcohol industries…

True, but if we're going to make that analogy, then 25I-NBoMe is the Four Loko of psychedelics. It was basically a marketing problem, with unusually high potency being eclipsed by caffeine and artificial sweeteners, or "legality" in case of 25I.

 

[simstim]

True, but if we're going to make that analogy, then 25I-NBoMe is the Four Loko of psychedelics. It was basically a marketing problem, with unusually high potency being eclipsed by caffeine and artificial sweeteners, or "legality" in case of 25I.

I like that I agree that the NBx series is like a four loko.

 

[Xorkoth]

I'm very rarely in disagreement with you, but no. Prohibition is not the answer. All of that bullshit mislabeling is the product of prohibition in the first place. You don't see that happening in the tobacco or alcohol industries…

Fair point, and I do believe that adult humans should be able to consume whatever the fuck they please. And yeah, of course prohibition of LSD was what caused the misrepresentation of it in the first place. But I'm just saying, we were, in those years, facing a real crisis in the psychedelic scene, where people were damaging or killing themselves because of stupidly high-dosed 25i-NBOMe blotter that they thought was acid. We can talk about how it shouldn't have ever gotten to that point and it was prohibition's fault, and I agree. But there we were, people were dying. And the banning of it across every country it was being made in actually reduced the harm being done, and fixed the situation (that and a serious ramp-up in the amount of actual LSD being produced). It actually might be the only case of prohibition of a substance actually leading to a positive result.

My ideal world is one where every drug is legalized and quality controlled, and available to consenting adults who choose to use them, and that includes the whole NBOMe series, and everything else you can name. Sadly, we don't live in a ideal world, and in the absence of reason, I do think that it was actually a net positive thing that they banned the NBOMes. And I've never said that about any other instance of prohibition before.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

^I've had extreme drunk-like effects from Ambien (double vision and such) but that's it. Never passed 20mg though.

 

[Kaleida]

Hey, I'm curious... has anyone here ever experienced anything trippy from Ambien? I've read reports on sites like Erowid where people see inanimate objects come to life from as little as 10mg.

This morning I had 80mg. for breakfast and I feel perfectly lucid two hours later. Maybe a little bit relaxed, but that's about it.

It could be because I have such a sick tolerance to benzos. Last week I went through 120mg. of Klonopin in five days!

I took a pill someone gave me once that I believe was 10 mg. It felt similar to Xanax except with a little bit of trippiness, but not enough to reach the level of hallucination, just enough for things to start spinning and drifting in a way a bit more like hallucinogens than depressants usually are and I remember feeling a bit unusually giggly for a benzo. Always wanted to try it again but never had the chance.

From what I understand though, having a high benzo tolerance will almost certainly largely remove the ability to trip on Ambien. 80 mg should have been like the DMT breakthrough equivalent of Ambien from what I've read. Although you wouldn't remember a thing about it either if you had no tolerance.