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Misc Phenobarbital first time

pkt

pkt

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
1,898
Hey guys,
I picked up a pack of phenobarbital 100mg tablets and i popped 4 pills. I have never used barbs before but i have a big oxy and benzo habit, could this be making it so the phenobarbital is giving me less of a buzz? 400mg is supposedly a high dose but nothing…they are name brand pills in the box from my usual chemist so no worrys there…
 
If you are used to heavy doses of narcotics and benzos, phenobarbital can seem pretty weak, requiring high doses. I used to take handfuls of the 68.4mg tablets at a time.

But be very careful, that stuff tends to creep up on you. I've wound in the hospital involuntary because someone found me passed out on it, and nonresponsive so they called the paramedics (i was absolutely fine, but it turned into a disaster). Another time I crashed my car. Phenobarbital lasts a long time, and the extent to which its actually working can be deceptive. The ratio of problems it has caused me relative to the shitty high it has, is probably the most out-of-wack of any drug I've tried (except for maybe etaqualone, which left me half-dead in the ICU -- though etaqualone is more enjoyable than phenobarbital).
 
negrogesic said:
If you are used to heavy doses of narcotics and benzos, phenobarbital can seem pretty weak, requiring high doses. I used to take handfuls of the 68.4mg tablets at a time.

But be very careful, that stuff tends to creep up on you. I've wound in the hospital involuntary because someone found me passed out on it, and nonresponsive so they called the paramedics (i was absolutely fine, but it turned into a disaster). Another time I crashed my car. Phenobarbital lasts a long time, and the extent to which its actually working can be deceptive. The ratio of problems it has caused me relative to the shitty high it has, is probably the most out-of-wack of any drug I've tried (except for maybe etaqualone, which left me half-dead in the ICU -- though etaqualone is more enjoyable than phenobarbital).
Click to expand...
thanks for your response. I was actually hoping it could help with my lnsomnia. Im a big guy (110kg) 1.86cm ex MMA fighter what is the largest dose i could take and still be relatively safe?
 
I had phenobarbital once in my teen years. I had a friend that was an epileptic and in the 1970s that was one of the treatments to prevent seizures. Anyway at that time I was well-versed in amobarbital, secobarbital, and Nembutal I figured phenobarbital was similar. It was nothing like those. I took 11 pills and basically couldn’t feel anything for hours. Yet, I passed out for 12 hours. No fun at all.

I definitely think people needed to certain between phenobarbital and butalbital as opposed to the other classic sleeping pills. Just having the word barbital does not mean it’s a a recreational barb. And from what I’ve seen on the post lately and the only one still available seems to be phenobarbital. Probably because it doesn’t do much except maybe prevent seizures. I bet it can be used as a good utility drug for some of the purposes that people are mentioning here though.

It probably can help with insomnia though, but I’m not sure how safely that could be used.
 
Onset is VERY slow indeed. Peak plasma levels at 8-12 hours so be careful. People have died the day AFTER dosing.

They make the Cl- ion pore of the GABA receptor open for longer. Benzos make the Cl- receptor pore open more often.... so they will boost benzos a LOT but this is a dangerous game.
 
As opposed to taking a seconal (known as reds in my day) which hits in 15 minutes and feels like a few instant beers that morphs into comfortable sleep. But the issue with those barbs was pretty much the same issue as with acetaminophen. Just a little too much and it could be an overdose. Acetaminophen destroying the liver at 5 times the therapeutic dose. Barbs stopping respiration at OD level too. Yet I knew too many people that took a few reds and drank alcohol with it and are still alive. But that is risky. If it were not for barbs and alcohol we may have gotten that Jimi Hendrix/Miles Davis collaboration that was to be done. :(
 
Seconal was famous for causing anterograde amnesia so people would take 2.... and 10 minutes later forget and tale 2 more.

Also barbs cause tolerance BUT the toxic level doesn't move so that therapeutic window gets narrower all of the time.

Tell me - did you ever come across Doriden (glutethimide)? I believe mixed with Tylenol #4 it converts all the codeine into M and produces a H-like high. Sounds deadly. Often wonder who discovered it & the other cocktail - T's and Blues (pentazocine & tripelennamine IVed).

Still, the Russians discovered tianeptine wasan opioid & that IV tropicamide was a diliriant (as well as Krokodil).
 
Fertile said:
Tell me - did you ever come across Doriden (glutethimide)? I believe mixed with Tylenol #4 it converts all the codeine into M and produces a H-like high. Sounds deadly. Often wonder who discovered it & the other cocktail
Click to expand...

Only twice. Doriden was not as abundant in medicine cabinets as barbs were. Never mixed with Tylenol 4 but I do remember that being a thing. If I remember correctly it had it's own slang term. (was that not from The Naked Lunch?)

I did have a sympathetic doc when I lived in Long Beach Ca that would prescribe me 100 Tylenol 4's whenever I went to him and said I am making an attempt to get off heroin and tired of risking the streets. So a few times he prescribe me 100 T-4's and 100 Halcions. That was his limit and I did have to make a promise I would try and stay off the street. :)
 
4s and Dors.

Sounds like a decent doctor. Codeine can be surprisingly helpful. One month my script was 5 days late and so I bought about 6 bottles of codeine linctus. Made me feel odd. Not good but not in the pain I expected (I get pain - not withdrawal).

Halcion is almost out of use - one of the first benzos that saw chaotic misuse (unlike valium where people just slept).
 
That sounds like it could be it. 4’s and dors. There is that section in the Naked Lunch where Burroughs and his friend could not find any heroin, but stopped at a pharmacy in say Louisiana where pharmacist friend hook them up with doriden and codeine. I have an old crappy copy of that book but I want to check that chapter out again. It’s bringing back memories.
 
I've always loved methaqualone. At the beginning I believe they could be had for $1-$2 each but by the end people were paying $20 (1970s money).

Mitromethaqualone wassupposed to be x10 more potent as a hypnotic although patents say only x4. They could have made methanitroqualone (positional isomer) the patent says is x5 ludes... but I think it was already the end of the line for that class.

In S. Africa (only place with a lude problem) they cost 15-60 rand ($3-$8) although I do not think it's actually methaqualone - it's some analogue.

Nice to talk to someone who 'was there'. Book learning is good - but no substitute for experience. So thanks for that.
 
During the 80s, my doc gave me a monthly script for Mandrax. Then I developed an allergy to them. So, he gave me Doriden. It came in pills and capsules. Then I started feeling like I was getting allergic to it, so he gave me Nembutal. Then I moved.
 
Ronolio said:
During the 80s, my doc gave me a monthly script for Mandrax. Then I developed an allergy to them. So, he gave me Doriden. It came in pills and capsules. Then I started feeling like I was getting allergic to it, so he gave me Nembutal. Then I moved.
Click to expand...

Yes - skin rashes through contact were often the first sign. Doriden alone was not much different from a barb, as far as I know.
 
Mandrax gave me water blisters on my hands. They were so itchy! I had to soak them in hot water to stop itching. It had to happen a half dozen times before I stopped taking them. I loved Ludes! I thought Doriden was similar to Mandy and other ludes, except when they wore off, you felt tired. I recall going to the docs when I was 14 and being given sample packs. On them was written, "A safe, non-addictive barbiturate substitute...Quaalude 300 mg." By Rorer. 1973, I believe.
 
Quaaludes were like a staple for all 4 in years my high school. Rorer 714 and Lemons. Always someone with a bag selling out in the commons. And yes, you can use your lunch money to get them for your day. Actually they would wear off by afternoon classes. I mean imagine the notion of drinking a 6 pack of good beer in 5 minutes. Then sobering up from that. That was ludes.

I did not try Mandrax until I got to Texas in the early 80s. I thought they were strictly methaqualone but I learned years later they also contain diphenhydramine also. I dislike diphenhydramine so I am glad I did not know. But I would get the strips that came right up from Mexico. God, good cocaine (straight from the port) and mandrax while working the family Texaco station off I 10 in Houston. So many drugs came in there. You can imagine what people will trade for gas or a tire. lol I have a million stories.

Funny how the term downer has changed over the years. It use to be ludes, reds, tui's. Now I guess a downer are benzodiazepines and Z drugs. Uppers have not changed, Amphetamine is a relic.
 
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Fertile said:
Tell me - did you ever come across Doriden (glutethimide)? I believe mixed with Tylenol #4 it converts all the codeine into M and produces a H-like high. Sounds deadly. Often wonder who discovered it & the other cocktail - T's and Blues (pentazocine & tripelennamine IVed).
Click to expand...
I used to get Doriden regularly. I liked it quite a bit since it gave a nice buzz with good legs, it lasted a while.
Unfortunately, we didn't know about the codeine potentiation at the time. Always wished I could have tried that.
Interestingly though, the housewife who sold us these told us that she had found that a Doriden plus a Darvon gave a better buzz. So that's how she sold them, a Doriden and a Darvon for a dollar. Trying the Doriden by itself proved her right. The two together was definitely better.

I always wondered if the Doriden potentiated the Darvon or vice versa.

My buds weren't as enamored of the Doriden as I was. The liked the buzz, but hated the dry mouth it caused. I figured that was not an issue if you had beer. :)
Many a drunken evening started with a Doriden and a Darvon. My policy was always to take whatever downer was on the menu, wait a bit, then start the drinking, no more downers. That's a good policy especially with something like a barb. I've seen many a person on booze and barbs lying in the bushes, face tilted downhill so the vomit goes away from it. I've seen it first person a few times.
That policy did go out the window once Prince Valium became readily available. Valium has a higher overdose level, especially combined with alcohol. I knew that at the time. Am still lucky I'm alive I suppose.

@JackARoe Butalbital ain't that bad, is it? Not as near good as a regular barb for sure, but not useless.
 
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Could I ask how long Doriden's effects lasted?

I ask because it shares the 3-phenyl-3-ethyl side-chains of phenobarbitone so I assumed it's duration must have been an issue for them to pick the LONGEST acting substituents (when applied to the related barb).

Doriden (glutethimide) is chiral - their are 2 optical isomers. One has a longer duration than the other, I did wonder if I could mod it for increased potency.

https://ibb.co/2g5zqqf

See how the ethyl side-chain is hydroxylated? Well I think a fluoroethyl would fix that.
 
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