Heroin Plugging East Coast powdered heroin
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dcraver877
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"Diacetylmorphine hydrochloride Dosage Forms
Capsule (sustained-release); Drops; Liquid; Solution; Suppository; Suppository (sustained-release); Syrup; Tablet; Tablet (extended-release); Tincture"
http://pharmacycode.com/Diacetylmorphine_hydrochloride.html
Capsule (sustained-release); Drops; Liquid; Solution; Suppository; Suppository (sustained-release); Syrup; Tablet; Tablet (extended-release); Tincture"
http://pharmacycode.com/Diacetylmorphine_hydrochloride.html
adder
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Cane2TheLeft said:
Why did you choose such pH? If heroin #4 is heroin hydrochloride, then pH of its solutions is acidic because heroin is a weak base and hydrochloric acid is a very strong acid that we can safely say dissolves in 100%. Morphine's dissociation constant is Kb = 1.6 * 10^(-6), so its pKb is 5.79, weak base, two acetyloxy groups instead of hydroxy groups won't make it an acid. The fact that heroin in water will eventually degrade to 6-MAM is a different thing (heroin is an ester at 3 and 6, not an ether, and at 3 it's phenolic so it's logical).
Anyway, heroin itself is a terribly bad agonist of opioid receptors, it's 6-acetylmorphine and morphine that do the job so what's the problem? This solution of white heroin hydrochloride isn't going to spend a lot of time up his ass, right? The only thing I wonder is why to do this? No benefits, just dirty job with sticking syringe up one's ass. It must be heroin salt (white/off-white/tan) if it's also snorted (brown heroin isn't meant to be snorted as it's freebase).
Also, East Coast white heroin often turns out to be fentanyl. I made schedules for self-detox for a person from Canada who bought white heroin "with a very quick rush and short action". It was definitely fentanyl. So to the OP: how do you know your heroin isn't fentanyl in fact? Did you use some reagent to check it? I would if I lived on East Coast and used white heroin. Here if white/tan heroin shows up, it's like 80% pure heroin for sure as it comes from Turkey, totally different route than for the brown stuff made from opium not purified at an earlier stage (hence the color) and acetylated probably at the point when the stuff is still opium (~40 alkaloids).
But I don't really know what #1, #2, #3, and #4 mean to you, they're known as different things in different places. Here nobody calls heroin with a number.
waldo777 said:
Note that hydromorphone is a good agonist of opioid receptors itself and heroin is a very poor one needing conversion to 6-MAM and morphine.
-"adder"
I appreciate your response, but I believe some of what you said is incorrect.
First, I don't know where you came up with the color " white" to describe the heroin being discussed? As stated above, the heroin is a tan color, nowhere close to white.
Also, while some white heroin may contain fentanyl, I think that's a minority of cases not the majority, this has been covered b4 on this site and DEA seizures confirm it.
I also don't think one can determine if the heroin is a salt or base just by color as you suggested....
Lastly, the reason for plugging the heroin, also as previously stated would be b/c many anecdotal reports claim plugging a drug is the next best thing to IV'ing that drug, and as needles are just a bad path to travel, if plugging beats snorting, then that ROA can be used and people can stay away from the dangers of needles.
Anyway, you seem very smart, so do you know the rectal BA for heroin? Or have any experience w/ this ROA?
Also, what about letting the H sit in water for 24 hours and then plugging it? Shouldn't that solution be at least partially morphine--a drug w/ a known rectal BA?
Anyone with input please jump in
I appreciate your response, but I believe some of what you said is incorrect.
First, I don't know where you came up with the color " white" to describe the heroin being discussed? As stated above, the heroin is a tan color, nowhere close to white.
Also, while some white heroin may contain fentanyl, I think that's a minority of cases not the majority, this has been covered b4 on this site and DEA seizures confirm it.
I also don't think one can determine if the heroin is a salt or base just by color as you suggested....
Lastly, the reason for plugging the heroin, also as previously stated would be b/c many anecdotal reports claim plugging a drug is the next best thing to IV'ing that drug, and as needles are just a bad path to travel, if plugging beats snorting, then that ROA can be used and people can stay away from the dangers of needles.
Anyway, you seem very smart, so do you know the rectal BA for heroin? Or have any experience w/ this ROA?
Also, what about letting the H sit in water for 24 hours and then plugging it? Shouldn't that solution be at least partially morphine--a drug w/ a known rectal BA?
Anyone with input please jump in
adder
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I didn't suggest one can determine if heroin is a freebase or is in a form of its salt. "Tan" means "off-white" here for me and that means the drug has been either cut with something or the color comes from incompetent synthesis.
I've never taken rectally any opioid but codeine. The only ROAs I used for heroin was mostly injecting street brown heroin (freebase cooked with citric acid or acetic acid), street white heroin salt, and lab grade heroin hydrochloride. I also smoked freebase. So I'm no help for your main question.
If you want to stay away from needles and use heroin, you can always snort it instead of taking it rectally even though as you stated p.r. beats snorting. But do you have any proof for this? Snorting is certainly way faster than making a solution and then playing with a syringe to apply it in anus.
I'm not trying to be smart. I'm just sharing what I know with you.
And about that fentanyl from East Coast - it could be past now, it could be mixed with heroin but as fentanyl is 100 times as strong as morphine, it's not a drug to fool around with as it works in minute doses. I know what one person I know had injected for a few months and there was fentanyl definitely.
I've never taken rectally any opioid but codeine. The only ROAs I used for heroin was mostly injecting street brown heroin (freebase cooked with citric acid or acetic acid), street white heroin salt, and lab grade heroin hydrochloride. I also smoked freebase. So I'm no help for your main question.
If you want to stay away from needles and use heroin, you can always snort it instead of taking it rectally even though as you stated p.r. beats snorting. But do you have any proof for this? Snorting is certainly way faster than making a solution and then playing with a syringe to apply it in anus.
I'm not trying to be smart. I'm just sharing what I know with you.
And about that fentanyl from East Coast - it could be past now, it could be mixed with heroin but as fentanyl is 100 times as strong as morphine, it's not a drug to fool around with as it works in minute doses. I know what one person I know had injected for a few months and there was fentanyl definitely.
^ no I realize that, I actually appreciate people correcting me or sharing new info with me so please don't take anything I said as being adversarial or rude.
I remember there were around 100 OD"s in just a few months in the boston area due to poorly cut heroin w/ fentanyl. But generally speaking I think most H is just that w/out any fentanyl in it, despite the extreme potency of fentanyl.
No one I know has ever seen of or heard of heroin base, are you from outside the USA by any chance?
To answer your question, I have absolutely no proof that heroin has a higher BA rectally than snorted, BUT, that's the whole reason I opened this thread....as scientific studies are so far non-existant on the subject, I thought people could help answer via experiences
Also, my friends nose is rather beaten up and knows a large amount of powder is going straight into his throat, so even if the Rectal BA is equal to snorting, then that still would be a more effective ROA
I remember there were around 100 OD"s in just a few months in the boston area due to poorly cut heroin w/ fentanyl. But generally speaking I think most H is just that w/out any fentanyl in it, despite the extreme potency of fentanyl.
No one I know has ever seen of or heard of heroin base, are you from outside the USA by any chance?
To answer your question, I have absolutely no proof that heroin has a higher BA rectally than snorted, BUT, that's the whole reason I opened this thread....as scientific studies are so far non-existant on the subject, I thought people could help answer via experiences
Also, my friends nose is rather beaten up and knows a large amount of powder is going straight into his throat, so even if the Rectal BA is equal to snorting, then that still would be a more effective ROA
dcraver877
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about to go pick up from my usual source. supposed to be "fire" product. I am going to use intranasally tonight and see how it turns out. I hope its more effective than plugging but my experience tells me it will not.
^"dcraver877", I'm very interested now, hope you don't mind me asking a few questions...
1) Have you ever snorted heroin before?
2) What is your normal or usual ROA for heroin? You seem to have implied that you usually plug H, is that correct?
3) What kinda H do you normally get; tar or powder? If its powder, what does it normally look like; i.e. ; is it light brown, dark brown, white, gray, etc...?
4) What is your average approximate dose for a given ROA? .1 gram?
Sorry for all the questions, just never heard of anyone who gets powdered heroin salt and has never snorted it before (unless I misunderstood). So you seem to be in the ideal position to determine if heroin plugged is as good, better, or worse than heroin snorted.
Thanks in advance, and anyone else w/ experience please jump in
1) Have you ever snorted heroin before?
2) What is your normal or usual ROA for heroin? You seem to have implied that you usually plug H, is that correct?
3) What kinda H do you normally get; tar or powder? If its powder, what does it normally look like; i.e. ; is it light brown, dark brown, white, gray, etc...?
4) What is your average approximate dose for a given ROA? .1 gram?
Sorry for all the questions, just never heard of anyone who gets powdered heroin salt and has never snorted it before (unless I misunderstood). So you seem to be in the ideal position to determine if heroin plugged is as good, better, or worse than heroin snorted.
Thanks in advance, and anyone else w/ experience please jump in
dcraver877
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1. yes i have (for the fourth time 15 minutes ago)
2. I usually plug. I've done it probably about 20 times. I have also I.V.'d powder. I've smoked black tar when i lived out west.
3. Powder. Light brown - tan
4. a point usually
I would say that plugged is better for the rush and overall bioavailability. But it's hard to say because I have never snorted and plugged dope from the same batch. They have all been varying potencies.
2. I usually plug. I've done it probably about 20 times. I have also I.V.'d powder. I've smoked black tar when i lived out west.
3. Powder. Light brown - tan
4. a point usually
I would say that plugged is better for the rush and overall bioavailability. But it's hard to say because I have never snorted and plugged dope from the same batch. They have all been varying potencies.
adder
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waldo777 said:
I live in Poland, and here the most widespread form of heroin is brown sugar. Compared to white/off-white heroin that's also available here brown heroin is of low quality, it's now maybe 10%, I don't really now as last time I took this it was in May 2008, prices were lower, stuff was stronger (like 20%). And that white variety is even 80% but I haven't seen it anywhere beside the south of the country while brown heroin (a few years ago available only in Warsaw) has started flooding black markets of the largest Polish cities lately.
Anyway, I know this brown variety is the same as brown heroin in European countries westwards as it actually goes through Polish market. Sometimes it sails on large ships from Ukrainian/Russian ports at Black Sea to Great Britain and Ireland. Anyway, it's the same stuff.
What I'm aiming at is this stuff goes through the ocean from the UK to East Coast of Canada and the U.S. (brown). But also white/off-white/tannish white (w/e) heroin goes to the U.S. and Canada from Turkey/Balkans. I know most of heroin on East Coast is from South America but just to let you know that you get similar stuff that's from "The Golden Crescent" and "travels" through Russia, then Scandinavia/Central Europe, to hit the UK and go to North America.
Concerning BAs of p.r. and intranasal ROAs, maybe I could dig up something but it'd be on morphine. Heroin is illegal with no medical use (I guess the UK is the only country using it as an analgesic). But not today (and just like BA of oral morphine and oral heroin vary, intranasal and p.r. may vary as well).
arthunter888
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experimental report
I have tried this comparison experimentally. I had a decent bulk amount of one batch of light tan powder. I tried these methods a week apart without using in between.
Plugged
I measured out 30mg of powder, dissolved in water, then plugged (after a BM, and layed there for 15 minutes). About an hour later, not feeling much, so I plugged another 15mg. Half hour later, not feeling much, plugged another 20mg. Feeling barely high, but not satisfactory. So this was 65mg in the course of 2 hours.
Snorted
I measured out 30mg. After rinsing out with saline spray, snorted softly as to avoid drip as much as possible. After about 5 minutes I sprayed with water to aid absorption. Hour later, not feeling much, snorted another 15mg. Starting to feel itchy, good sign, but not blasted yet. Half hour later, snorted another 20mg. Now I feel very itchy, tingly, and satisfactorily high. This is 65mg over the course of 2 hours.
Conclusion
I am recalling this experiment from memory about 3 weeks ago, so the doses for either method (or both) could be off, but I doubt they are appreciably off. Also, the fact that these doses are spread out over 2 hours may distort accuracy a little, due to differences in absorption time and metabolism between rectal and nasal.
However, as it stands my intuition tells me that snorting is more efficacious than plugging. I was getting noticeably higher every time I snorted additional doses than I did with plugging additional doses that were very similar in weight. The progression was obvious. Also, I think it is important to note that when plugging heroin, the high was much more morphine-like. There was the classic histamine head-pressure that I get with morphine, and the same heaviness as well. This did not occur when snorting, which actually resembles oxymorphone in quality more than it does morphine. This morphine-resemblance when plugging makes me think that a substantial portion of the dose is NOT avoiding first-pass metabolism, as it does when snorting. So, I know this experiment has weaknesses, but it's certainly better than most reports here since the doses were measured out.
I have tried this comparison experimentally. I had a decent bulk amount of one batch of light tan powder. I tried these methods a week apart without using in between.
Plugged
I measured out 30mg of powder, dissolved in water, then plugged (after a BM, and layed there for 15 minutes). About an hour later, not feeling much, so I plugged another 15mg. Half hour later, not feeling much, plugged another 20mg. Feeling barely high, but not satisfactory. So this was 65mg in the course of 2 hours.
Snorted
I measured out 30mg. After rinsing out with saline spray, snorted softly as to avoid drip as much as possible. After about 5 minutes I sprayed with water to aid absorption. Hour later, not feeling much, snorted another 15mg. Starting to feel itchy, good sign, but not blasted yet. Half hour later, snorted another 20mg. Now I feel very itchy, tingly, and satisfactorily high. This is 65mg over the course of 2 hours.
Conclusion
I am recalling this experiment from memory about 3 weeks ago, so the doses for either method (or both) could be off, but I doubt they are appreciably off. Also, the fact that these doses are spread out over 2 hours may distort accuracy a little, due to differences in absorption time and metabolism between rectal and nasal.
However, as it stands my intuition tells me that snorting is more efficacious than plugging. I was getting noticeably higher every time I snorted additional doses than I did with plugging additional doses that were very similar in weight. The progression was obvious. Also, I think it is important to note that when plugging heroin, the high was much more morphine-like. There was the classic histamine head-pressure that I get with morphine, and the same heaviness as well. This did not occur when snorting, which actually resembles oxymorphone in quality more than it does morphine. This morphine-resemblance when plugging makes me think that a substantial portion of the dose is NOT avoiding first-pass metabolism, as it does when snorting. So, I know this experiment has weaknesses, but it's certainly better than most reports here since the doses were measured out.
Thank you to the two posters above,
To "Adder"--- yeah heroin is Rx'd in only a few countries, and is only available as ampules for injection, since it is considered to have no medicinal use in most of the world, there are very few studies conducted on the drug, and none concerning recall BA that I'm aware of which is a bummer. (The link provided a few posts back actually concerns morphine, not heroin, so unfortunately was not very helpful)
To "Arthunter888"----very helpful report, and your right, there are just so many variables with rectal admin, you never really know. However, my friend did recently try plugging H for the 1st tine, and while very disappointed, he did also get that heavy, almost sore feeling in his head and neck, a quasi-pleasant feeling he said. I know opiates are most "efficacious"(sic?) when taken in single large doses instead dosing in smaller amounts more frequently....
If plugging truly does absorb drugs faster than insufflation, then perhaps the small plugged doses of H were being absorbed quickly, while the first snorted dose of H wasn't fully absorbed when the second dose was taken, allowing the H to build up in the nose and essentially resulting in a larger dose being absorbed at one time than anticipated...
Just a thought, could be WAY off
To "Adder"--- yeah heroin is Rx'd in only a few countries, and is only available as ampules for injection, since it is considered to have no medicinal use in most of the world, there are very few studies conducted on the drug, and none concerning recall BA that I'm aware of which is a bummer. (The link provided a few posts back actually concerns morphine, not heroin, so unfortunately was not very helpful)
To "Arthunter888"----very helpful report, and your right, there are just so many variables with rectal admin, you never really know. However, my friend did recently try plugging H for the 1st tine, and while very disappointed, he did also get that heavy, almost sore feeling in his head and neck, a quasi-pleasant feeling he said. I know opiates are most "efficacious"(sic?) when taken in single large doses instead dosing in smaller amounts more frequently....
If plugging truly does absorb drugs faster than insufflation, then perhaps the small plugged doses of H were being absorbed quickly, while the first snorted dose of H wasn't fully absorbed when the second dose was taken, allowing the H to build up in the nose and essentially resulting in a larger dose being absorbed at one time than anticipated...
Just a thought, could be WAY off
adder
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Those acetyl groups don't help bioavailability (I don't count i.v., it's 100% of the drug absorbed anyway, be it morphine or heroin, how much goes through BBB is another thing, what doesn't and remains in blood is distributed in body).
Morphine rectal ≈ morphine oral. Morphine intranasal ≈ or < morphine oral. And morphine oral > heroin oral (although here estimates will vary both for morphine and for heroin). Anyway, that chitosan solution for morphine nasal sprays is there for a reason, it boosts morphine BA.
Street heroin has good BA if it's inhaled or if it's injected (and inhalation is also > intranasal / rectal / oral).
Why are morphine BAs useless? They're actually a good thing to compare heroin BAs. Taking it orally, snorting it or taking it rectally is a waste. What is that you want to avoid? Addiction? You can't avoid it no matter how you take it (I knew a guy who eventually ended up plugging 300mg of morphine to feel alright, considering morphine's low BA rectally it was worth 100mg i.v.'ed at most, it's quite a high dose, well definitely not for starters, 10 opioid-naive people could get high off it).
Injection gives a rush in seconds, inhalation of vapors is more steady although I never liked to do it (2 hands and 3 things to carry, I always ended up salivating). Anyway, this is how it is - you've got a strong opioid, people use it the way to get the most of it and they unknowingly choose the best ways. To be honest an idea of plugging heroin never went through my mind and heroin usage was only like 10% of time I used opioids. Actually I never thought of plugging morphine or any 6-ketones, or synthetic drugs. I never heard of people plugging heroin, morphine may come in suppositories but it's not worth it either. I only heard of people snorting heroin but that brown freebase heroin isn't meant to be snorted really so they get nothing especially with such a low % of heroin in it. And now I wonder how much junkies have to steal everyday to get their fix with increased prices and decreased quality of material.
Morphine rectal ≈ morphine oral. Morphine intranasal ≈ or < morphine oral. And morphine oral > heroin oral (although here estimates will vary both for morphine and for heroin). Anyway, that chitosan solution for morphine nasal sprays is there for a reason, it boosts morphine BA.
Street heroin has good BA if it's inhaled or if it's injected (and inhalation is also > intranasal / rectal / oral).
Why are morphine BAs useless? They're actually a good thing to compare heroin BAs. Taking it orally, snorting it or taking it rectally is a waste. What is that you want to avoid? Addiction? You can't avoid it no matter how you take it (I knew a guy who eventually ended up plugging 300mg of morphine to feel alright, considering morphine's low BA rectally it was worth 100mg i.v.'ed at most, it's quite a high dose, well definitely not for starters, 10 opioid-naive people could get high off it).
Injection gives a rush in seconds, inhalation of vapors is more steady although I never liked to do it (2 hands and 3 things to carry, I always ended up salivating). Anyway, this is how it is - you've got a strong opioid, people use it the way to get the most of it and they unknowingly choose the best ways. To be honest an idea of plugging heroin never went through my mind and heroin usage was only like 10% of time I used opioids. Actually I never thought of plugging morphine or any 6-ketones, or synthetic drugs. I never heard of people plugging heroin, morphine may come in suppositories but it's not worth it either. I only heard of people snorting heroin but that brown freebase heroin isn't meant to be snorted really so they get nothing especially with such a low % of heroin in it. And now I wonder how much junkies have to steal everyday to get their fix with increased prices and decreased quality of material.
Here's the short answer, my friend is way past worrying about becoming addicted. (The dude is sticking stuff up his butt for god sake!), he only gets Heroin salt and so smoking is out, leaving only IV and snorting, but he says he'll never use IV so that's out too, leaving only snorting and plugging. However, his nose is so messed up from years of abuse that 1 nostril just won't work(always stuffed even w/ afrin etc...) And the other nostril is so beat up, he can feel most of the powder go straight to his throat and down to his stomach 
that's why he thought plugging may be the answer....
Seems like he's better off making a nasal spray w/ it, or using oxycodone,
BUT if anyone knows of a way around his problem please tell
Thanks
that's why he thought plugging may be the answer....Seems like he's better off making a nasal spray w/ it, or using oxycodone,
BUT if anyone knows of a way around his problem please tell
Thanks
arthunter888
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^^Here is a nasal spray method I have devised, that seems to be working quite well for me. The best part is that the 'mist' resulting from the pump is spread throughout the nasal cavity so is is less likely to be swallowed so long as you only spray once per minute.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=548098
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=548098
aaronratner
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Even though this thread is old I'm posting so others searching can have an additional opinion. SWIM lives in the East Coast and he plugs exclusively when he uses. SWIM absolutely loves plugging and as another poster said, if it ain't nailed down it's going up in SWIM's ass. SWIM's favorite is plugging 30MG of Opana IR but he loves plugging a couple or a few bags of dope when he's in the mood. SWIM doesn't lay on his side for more than two seconds at most. SWIM simply mixes his dose with a bit of very warm to hit water. He mixes it and then shakes it in the syringe (no needle, of course) until he feels it's nicely mixed. Then he shoves it in his ass, plunges it in and gets up. That's it. It's nonsense to wait on your side. SWIM has done it this way for years with OPs, dilaudid, OCs and other pills and does it with dope all the time. In SWIM's opinion, this is the best way to do it because IVs are not his thing and should generally be avoided. SWIM finds that this gives him the best of all worlds in terms of high and danger. So, in SWIM's opinion, plug and plug often. In fact, SWIM is about to plug three bags now.