Recovery Should I go on Suboxone?

[Waffleicious]

Hey guys.

I've been into drugs since I can remember, trying everything from RC Benzos to Meth to Opium, Rolls, Younameit®, however I've always had an affinity for opioids.

To give you some background information, I come from a family with a history of addiction. Not my parents, but my grandparents on both sides as well as their grandparents. Since my parents never talked about it and were pretty much sober the entire time, it just wasn't something I worried about. Both my immediate and extended family -as well as myself- suffer from a heck of a lot of depression, anxiety, and suicidal behaviors. When I was quite young, I had extremely bad asthma and was hospitalized a number of times because of it. I was put on Singulair at the age of 9 and stayed on it throughout highschool and early college. We (doctors, parents, and myself included) did not know at the time that Singulair has around a 10% chance of drastically exacerbating depression and suicidal behavior in those that use it. So I spent a massive portion of my developmental years horribly depressed with multiple attempts at suicide. I just didn't know a life without depression -until DRUGS! Yay drugs!

I ended up getting involved in all sorts of procuring, distributing, and consuming whatever I could get my hands on. It gave me a sense of relief, a sense of excitement, a bunch of money, new "friends", etc... I never let my (ab)use really effect my work/school and excelled at both, graduating college early and becoming Head Chef of a snooty restaurant by 24. It was around that age that I began to feel the emptiness and dissatisfaction that stems from living a life constantly high. I still didn't realize that the addiction was the issue, I just kind of assumed a needed a big change because my life wasn't headed in a direction I was happy with.

So I packed up and moved to Thailand. I cold turkey quit everything (was on 60-90mg of morphine/day plus whatever stims, psychedelics, weed, oxys, or fent) and made the journey. I was living by myself for a brief period and was bored one day, so I decided to see what I could snag from local pharmacies -since things can slip through the cracks in a city like Bangkok. After trying about 9 different pharmacies, I came across one that I convinced to sell me Tramadol. Boom. Back on opiates. I rarely ever abused, abused the tramadol while I was there but I had it in my system on a daily basis for the next two years. While living there I got another degree, got a girlfriend, and was probably the happiest I've ever been. But it was all still under the guise of avoiding reality. I even got into meditation, exercise, and healthy eating, but I still relied on Tramadol to keep me in balance and not depressed.

When I moved back to the States I fell back in with my old crew and got right back into the same shit. I totally burnt myself out on MDA/MDMA to the point where the "magic" is just nonexistent. I then moved onto microdosing LSD regularly and felt great, preformed highly at my job, got a few promotions and the best money I'd ever made, and was still left unhappy. By this point, I could no longer enjoy L because my mind immediately went into this mathematical, cause-effect, problem-solving, work-mode whenever I took it.

I still felt unfulfilled and depressed, feeling like I had made zero positive momentum in the last few years and had wound up in the same place, doing the same shit, just spinning my wheels. So I sought out antidepressants. Without a doctor. I knew I had an affinity for opiates and was still in denial about my addiction, so when I found Tianeptine and read all the horror stories about people getting addicted and having to take massive doses and how coming off of it was way harder than quitting smack, I was like "maybe for you pussies but I'll be fine!". It didn't work out so well.

Tianeptine is hell. This is the first time I ever realized that I was addicted and that I had actually been addicted to having SOME substance in my body for years. Coming off of that shit was a nightmare. It took me about 2 years. I was able to come off of it with the help of Gabapentin and Tramadol. Then I became very addicted to tramadol. After about a year of that -all the while hiding this shit from my girlfriend that I lived with and my family members- I managed to get off of Tramadol and onto Kratom.

Kratom was great and helped me satisfy that craving for opioids while giving me energy and motivation to get things done. It gave me some anxiety, though, so I relied more heavily on Benzos (which had also been a part of my drug cocktails for the last 4 years). I also developed a decent addiction to Alcohol because everywhere I worked for the last 4-5 years I would get limitless free drinks. Then in the last 6 months, Cocaine became a much more frequent visitor.

Over the last 4 months, I have been really trying to stay clean, but fall into binges every now and then whenever I am tempted or just say "Fuck it!" when things get too hard.
Every day I wake up feeling hopeless. I have no desire to have hope. I have no motivation to keep going. I contemplate suicide on a daily basis but I know I won't do it because it would hurt my family too much. I have no desire to hurt anyone, myself included. I just don't have the desire to exist.

So after nearly 2 months of total sobriety I find myself back on Kratom and Alcohol which mitigate my symptoms of just wanting to die, but also don't at the same time. It's a fucking struggle to do anything. I should also mention that I am on 150mg Wellbutrin XL (bupropion) and 75mg Effexor (venlafaxine) daily.

Last week a friend of mine told me to try some of his Subs (buprenorphine/naloxone) and HOLY SHIT I FEEL LIKE A HUMAN AGAIN! I am motivated. I have energy. I am excited about the future and am working towards goals -I haven't had DESIRES in quite some fucking time, let alone GOALS. I'm only taking around 1.5mg/day (8mg strip cut into 16ths, taking 3/16ths) and I can see my depression and just choose not to succumb to it. I don't have any desire to take other opiates or to drink. I feel like I have control of my life for the first time in a long time.

But do I really? Or am I just trading one substance for another like I've done the majority of my life? Furthermore, there's a lot of bullshit that comes with getting prescribed Suboxone. You have your constant drug tests, mandatory meetings (which I really feel like I don't have time for), and you get a big red mark on your chart that says to every doctor, therapist, and clinician that, "Hey! I'm an addict!!". I have no idea how long -if ever- that would take to go away. I just know that right now I do feel better than I have in ages. I have done a lot of research on buprenorphine, naloxone, and naltrexone on opiate use disorder and on depression and it appears to be somewhat of a wonder drug. However I'm not without knowing that it, too is addictive and that the withdrawal symptoms, while potentially more acute, could last a lot longer than traditional opiates

So on that note...

TL;DR

I have a long history of drug use that began out of a desire to combat extreme depression with suicidal behavior. After a number of years of moving from one drug to the next and still feeling empty and suicidal, I tried Suboxone and it appears to work miracles. Is it worth it for me to seek it out and get it prescribed? Or am I better off barely managing my issues with antidepressants and self-medication of kratom and alcohol?

Thanks for taking the time to read, I appreciate any and all advice or insight.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

If subs work I would def talk to your docor(s) and see if it is a valid option for you. Chasing "sanity" on our own terms can and has led to some fairly toxic outcomes.
Seems I am still chasing my own stability but the drugs the docs have tried on me have created worse issues. I am basically here:

barely managing my issues

Alcohol I would strongly vote against in any case. I know its easier said than done but just the side effects of chronic use of this substance is detrimental at best. Whatever the choice(s) made I would try not to rely on this as a factor in finding any lasting happiness.

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

Hey guys.

I've been into drugs since I can remember, trying everything from RC Benzos to Meth to Opium, Rolls, Younameit®, however I've always had an affinity for opioids.

To give you some background information, I come from a family with a history of addiction. Not my parents, but my grandparents on both sides as well as their grandparents. Since my parents never talked about it and were pretty much sober the entire time, it just wasn't something I worried about. Both my immediate and extended family -as well as myself- suffer from a heck of a lot of depression, anxiety, and suicidal behaviors. When I was quite young, I had extremely bad asthma and was hospitalized a number of times because of it. I was put on Singulair at the age of 9 and stayed on it throughout highschool and early college. We (doctors, parents, and myself included) did not know at the time that Singulair has around a 10% chance of drastically exacerbating depression and suicidal behavior in those that use it. So I spent a massive portion of my developmental years horribly depressed with multiple attempts at suicide. I just didn't know a life without depression -until DRUGS! Yay drugs!

I ended up getting involved in all sorts of procuring, distributing, and consuming whatever I could get my hands on. It gave me a sense of relief, a sense of excitement, a bunch of money, new "friends", etc... I never let my (ab)use really effect my work/school and excelled at both, graduating college early and becoming Head Chef of a snooty restaurant by 24. It was around that age that I began to feel the emptiness and dissatisfaction that stems from living a life constantly high. I still didn't realize that the addiction was the issue, I just kind of assumed a needed a big change because my life wasn't headed in a direction I was happy with.

So I packed up and moved to Thailand. I cold turkey quit everything (was on 60-90mg of morphine/day plus whatever stims, psychedelics, weed, oxys, or fent) and made the journey. I was living by myself for a brief period and was bored one day, so I decided to see what I could snag from local pharmacies -since things can slip through the cracks in a city like Bangkok. After trying about 9 different pharmacies, I came across one that I convinced to sell me Tramadol. Boom. Back on opiates. I rarely ever abused, abused the tramadol while I was there but I had it in my system on a daily basis for the next two years. While living there I got another degree, got a girlfriend, and was probably the happiest I've ever been. But it was all still under the guise of avoiding reality. I even got into meditation, exercise, and healthy eating, but I still relied on Tramadol to keep me in balance and not depressed.

When I moved back to the States I fell back in with my old crew and got right back into the same shit. I totally burnt myself out on MDA/MDMA to the point where the "magic" is just nonexistent. I then moved onto microdosing LSD regularly and felt great, preformed highly at my job, got a few promotions and the best money I'd ever made, and was still left unhappy. By this point, I could no longer enjoy L because my mind immediately went into this mathematical, cause-effect, problem-solving, work-mode whenever I took it.

I still felt unfulfilled and depressed, feeling like I had made zero positive momentum in the last few years and had wound up in the same place, doing the same shit, just spinning my wheels. So I sought out antidepressants. Without a doctor. I knew I had an affinity for opiates and was still in denial about my addiction, so when I found Tianeptine and read all the horror stories about people getting addicted and having to take massive doses and how coming off of it was way harder than quitting smack, I was like "maybe for you pussies but I'll be fine!". It didn't work out so well.

Tianeptine is hell. This is the first time I ever realized that I was addicted and that I had actually been addicted to having SOME substance in my body for years. Coming off of that shit was a nightmare. It took me about 2 years. I was able to come off of it with the help of Gabapentin and Tramadol. Then I became very addicted to tramadol. After about a year of that -all the while hiding this shit from my girlfriend that I lived with and my family members- I managed to get off of Tramadol and onto Kratom.

Kratom was great and helped me satisfy that craving for opioids while giving me energy and motivation to get things done. It gave me some anxiety, though, so I relied more heavily on Benzos (which had also been a part of my drug cocktails for the last 4 years). I also developed a decent addiction to Alcohol because everywhere I worked for the last 4-5 years I would get limitless free drinks. Then in the last 6 months, Cocaine became a much more frequent visitor.

Over the last 4 months, I have been really trying to stay clean, but fall into binges every now and then whenever I am tempted or just say "Fuck it!" when things get too hard.
Every day I wake up feeling hopeless. I have no desire to have hope. I have no motivation to keep going. I contemplate suicide on a daily basis but I know I won't do it because it would hurt my family too much. I have no desire to hurt anyone, myself included. I just don't have the desire to exist.

So after nearly 2 months of total sobriety I find myself back on Kratom and Alcohol which mitigate my symptoms of just wanting to die, but also don't at the same time. It's a fucking struggle to do anything. I should also mention that I am on 150mg Wellbutrin XL (bupropion) and 75mg Effexor (venlafaxine) daily.

Last week a friend of mine told me to try some of his Subs (buprenorphine/naloxone) and HOLY SHIT I FEEL LIKE A HUMAN AGAIN! I am motivated. I have energy. I am excited about the future and am working towards goals -I haven't had DESIRES in quite some fucking time, let alone GOALS. I'm only taking around 1.5mg/day (8mg strip cut into 16ths, taking 3/16ths) and I can see my depression and just choose not to succumb to it. I don't have any desire to take other opiates or to drink. I feel like I have control of my life for the first time in a long time.

But do I really? Or am I just trading one substance for another like I've done the majority of my life? Furthermore, there's a lot of bullshit that comes with getting prescribed Suboxone. You have your constant drug tests, mandatory meetings (which I really feel like I don't have time for), and you get a big red mark on your chart that says to every doctor, therapist, and clinician that, "Hey! I'm an addict!!". I have no idea how long -if ever- that would take to go away. I just know that right now I do feel better than I have in ages. I have done a lot of research on buprenorphine, naloxone, and naltrexone on opiate use disorder and on depression and it appears to be somewhat of a wonder drug. However I'm not without knowing that it, too is addictive and that the withdrawal symptoms, while potentially more acute, could last a lot longer than traditional opiates

So on that note...

TL;DR

I have a long history of drug use that began out of a desire to combat extreme depression with suicidal behavior. After a number of years of moving from one drug to the next and still feeling empty and suicidal, I tried Suboxone and it appears to work miracles. Is it worth it for me to seek it out and get it prescribed? Or am I better off barely managing my issues with antidepressants and self-medication of kratom and alcohol?

Thanks for taking the time to read, I appreciate any and all advice or insight.

Man O man. You have accomplished quite a good deal in your life, more so than the average person IMHO. You definitely should feel proud.

I believe some people simply cannot be completely sober and operate at maximum effectiveness. I personally don't think it's wrong if you believe you need a little extra boost from a drug or two to get you in the right gear and state of mind to enjoy life and be the best version of yourself. You do you man. Always trust your gut instinct though. You seem like a smart guy, so keep on being smart.

 

[Waffleicious]

If subs work I would def talk to your docor(s) and see if it is a valid option for you. Chasing "sanity" on our own terms can and has led to some fairly toxic outcomes.
Seems I am still chasing my own stability but the drugs the docs have tried on me have created worse issues. I am basically here:

Alcohol I would strongly vote against in any case. I know its easier said than done but just the side effects of chronic use of this substance is detrimental at best. Whatever the choice(s) made I would try not to rely on this as a factor in finding any lasting happiness.

Yeah I know the alcohol is a bad move... honestly it relieves some of the angst for the moment but then makes it worse later... and it's awful for you... but hooray for us both managing our symptoms! (even if we are barely managing )

Man O man. You have accomplished quite a good deal in your life, more so than the average person IMHO. You definitely should feel proud.

I believe some people simply cannot be completely sober and operate at maximum effectiveness. I personally don't think it's wrong if you believe you need a little extra boost from a drug or two to get you in the right gear and state of mind to enjoy life and be the best version of yourself. You do you man. Always trust your gut instinct though. You seem like a smart guy, so keep on being smart.

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate you. I agree that some people might just need to be on something to get the chemical imbalances in their brains leveled out. Idk why it just seems like more of a cop-out because this is an opioid and not an SSRI... I mean SSRIs are proven to be quite ineffective in large percentages of peoples. Knowing this, why is there such a stigma on using something like BUP to manage treatment resistant depression? I guess I'm just asking myself why I have such a stigma on it...

My gut is telling me to do it, or at least to inquire more from different providers. I found TreatmentMatch.org and was happy that there was an anonymous tool for connecting you with different providers. Idk why I'm just so scared to be officially marked as an addict on my chart... I guess it's admitting it to the world that's the scary part and getting viewed differently because of it, but living in secrecy only encourages addiction and negative behaviors. Maybe that's a great first step for me idk...

Do you guys know how long it would take to get that flag off your records? Or would it be there forever?

Thanks for the replies y'all

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Do you guys know how long it would take to get that flag off your records? Or would it be there forever?

Good question as I haven't a clue. It is a shame to think that someone seeking help would land on a "junkie" register somewhere. Just seems counter productive but then do they really wanna see us succeed? That would be less for "them" and "they" all about "themselves".
I find subs help with my mental stability. I found out that my doctor is a sub doc in town and maybe I will talk to him about it. Subs helps immensely with physical pains in my case and it's loooong lasting so wouldn't have to abuse it. Maybe it's the aches/pains that have a negative effect on my dispositions. Totally logical for me but I know there are some deep seated mental issues going way back that I chip at once in a while but have never really come to terms. Wondering if a life of kratom or a life of subs would be the lesser of evils...?

living in secrecy only encourages addiction and negative behaviors

Amen to that, brother. Cannot even add to this.
Also wondering: At our age (assuming here that we are in our 50s)... would it really matter what druggie list we end up on? Speaking for myself I have dealt with felony convictions since since 1984 (DUIs since before then). In relation/perspective; a dope fiend tag couldnt hurt much, yeah?
This has got me thinking how long a low dose bupre regimen would last. What are the physical drawbacks. Further mental degradation. Guess a lot of research is in order to facilitate a better decision on my part but it is starting to look promising. IDK
BL is definitively thought provoking. Rare are the times I log in that a new or different perspective is provided and another aspect of our humanity is revealed. Some rather life changing.
Anti depressants has never worked on my issues and has only created other problems but this is my experience. As stated; they work for many.

 

[Rwillis64]

Hey guys.

I've been into drugs since I can remember, trying everything from RC Benzos to Meth to Opium, Rolls, Younameit®, however I've always had an affinity for opioids.

To give you some background information, I come from a family with a history of addiction. Not my parents, but my grandparents on both sides as well as their grandparents. Since my parents never talked about it and were pretty much sober the entire time, it just wasn't something I worried about. Both my immediate and extended family -as well as myself- suffer from a heck of a lot of depression, anxiety, and suicidal behaviors. When I was quite young, I had extremely bad asthma and was hospitalized a number of times because of it. I was put on Singulair at the age of 9 and stayed on it throughout highschool and early college. We (doctors, parents, and myself included) did not know at the time that Singulair has around a 10% chance of drastically exacerbating depression and suicidal behavior in those that use it. So I spent a massive portion of my developmental years horribly depressed with multiple attempts at suicide. I just didn't know a life without depression -until DRUGS! Yay drugs!

I ended up getting involved in all sorts of procuring, distributing, and consuming whatever I could get my hands on. It gave me a sense of relief, a sense of excitement, a bunch of money, new "friends", etc... I never let my (ab)use really effect my work/school and excelled at both, graduating college early and becoming Head Chef of a snooty restaurant by 24. It was around that age that I began to feel the emptiness and dissatisfaction that stems from living a life constantly high. I still didn't realize that the addiction was the issue, I just kind of assumed a needed a big change because my life wasn't headed in a direction I was happy with.

So I packed up and moved to Thailand. I cold turkey quit everything (was on 60-90mg of morphine/day plus whatever stims, psychedelics, weed, oxys, or fent) and made the journey. I was living by myself for a brief period and was bored one day, so I decided to see what I could snag from local pharmacies -since things can slip through the cracks in a city like Bangkok. After trying about 9 different pharmacies, I came across one that I convinced to sell me Tramadol. Boom. Back on opiates. I rarely ever abused, abused the tramadol while I was there but I had it in my system on a daily basis for the next two years. While living there I got another degree, got a girlfriend, and was probably the happiest I've ever been. But it was all still under the guise of avoiding reality. I even got into meditation, exercise, and healthy eating, but I still relied on Tramadol to keep me in balance and not depressed.

When I moved back to the States I fell back in with my old crew and got right back into the same shit. I totally burnt myself out on MDA/MDMA to the point where the "magic" is just nonexistent. I then moved onto microdosing LSD regularly and felt great, preformed highly at my job, got a few promotions and the best money I'd ever made, and was still left unhappy. By this point, I could no longer enjoy L because my mind immediately went into this mathematical, cause-effect, problem-solving, work-mode whenever I took it.

I still felt unfulfilled and depressed, feeling like I had made zero positive momentum in the last few years and had wound up in the same place, doing the same shit, just spinning my wheels. So I sought out antidepressants. Without a doctor. I knew I had an affinity for opiates and was still in denial about my addiction, so when I found Tianeptine and read all the horror stories about people getting addicted and having to take massive doses and how coming off of it was way harder than quitting smack, I was like "maybe for you pussies but I'll be fine!". It didn't work out so well.

Tianeptine is hell. This is the first time I ever realized that I was addicted and that I had actually been addicted to having SOME substance in my body for years. Coming off of that shit was a nightmare. It took me about 2 years. I was able to come off of it with the help of Gabapentin and Tramadol. Then I became very addicted to tramadol. After about a year of that -all the while hiding this shit from my girlfriend that I lived with and my family members- I managed to get off of Tramadol and onto Kratom.

Kratom was great and helped me satisfy that craving for opioids while giving me energy and motivation to get things done. It gave me some anxiety, though, so I relied more heavily on Benzos (which had also been a part of my drug cocktails for the last 4 years). I also developed a decent addiction to Alcohol because everywhere I worked for the last 4-5 years I would get limitless free drinks. Then in the last 6 months, Cocaine became a much more frequent visitor.

Over the last 4 months, I have been really trying to stay clean, but fall into binges every now and then whenever I am tempted or just say "Fuck it!" when things get too hard.
Every day I wake up feeling hopeless. I have no desire to have hope. I have no motivation to keep going. I contemplate suicide on a daily basis but I know I won't do it because it would hurt my family too much. I have no desire to hurt anyone, myself included. I just don't have the desire to exist.

So after nearly 2 months of total sobriety I find myself back on Kratom and Alcohol which mitigate my symptoms of just wanting to die, but also don't at the same time. It's a fucking struggle to do anything. I should also mention that I am on 150mg Wellbutrin XL (bupropion) and 75mg Effexor (venlafaxine) daily.

Last week a friend of mine told me to try some of his Subs (buprenorphine/naloxone) and HOLY SHIT I FEEL LIKE A HUMAN AGAIN! I am motivated. I have energy. I am excited about the future and am working towards goals -I haven't had DESIRES in quite some fucking time, let alone GOALS. I'm only taking around 1.5mg/day (8mg strip cut into 16ths, taking 3/16ths) and I can see my depression and just choose not to succumb to it. I don't have any desire to take other opiates or to drink. I feel like I have control of my life for the first time in a long time.

But do I really? Or am I just trading one substance for another like I've done the majority of my life? Furthermore, there's a lot of bullshit that comes with getting prescribed Suboxone. You have your constant drug tests, mandatory meetings (which I really feel like I don't have time for), and you get a big red mark on your chart that says to every doctor, therapist, and clinician that, "Hey! I'm an addict!!". I have no idea how long -if ever- that would take to go away. I just know that right now I do feel better than I have in ages. I have done a lot of research on buprenorphine, naloxone, and naltrexone on opiate use disorder and on depression and it appears to be somewhat of a wonder drug. However I'm not without knowing that it, too is addictive and that the withdrawal symptoms, while potentially more acute, could last a lot longer than traditional opiates

So on that note...

TL;DR

I have a long history of drug use that began out of a desire to combat extreme depression with suicidal behavior. After a number of years of moving from one drug to the next and still feeling empty and suicidal, I tried Suboxone and it appears to work miracles. Is it worth it for me to seek it out and get it prescribed? Or am I better off barely managing my issues with antidepressants and self-medication of kratom and alcohol?

Thanks for taking the time to read, I appreciate any and all advice or insight.

Yeah, love my opiates too. I've dealt with the frigging withdrawal merry-go-round myself for almost 30 years. Decided about 2 months ago to finally take control of my life and break my addiction. I am a patient of Mindful Care Recovery. The doctor there put me on Suboxone (Buprenorphine 8mg/Nalox 2mg). I take 2 strips every morning (maximum dose). It has given me my life back...seriously. It has taken away the cravings for opiates and most important, I have my energy level back where it should be. It has changed my outlook on things to be more optimistic and for the first time in a long while, I am actually happy. If you do the Suboxone route though, NO ALCOHOL! Combining the two can kill you. Also, no tranquilizers as that can kill you. But, if you're committed to getting off the opiates and other shit for good, I would highly recommend the Suboxone route. My insurance covers the medication and bi-weekly zoom doctor visits. I have to pay out of pocket $50 a month that covers the weekly Zoom session with my therapist (therapist sessions drop to bi-weekly once they feel you've made good progress on the drug and on your life in general). Therapist is available for zoom conference 24/7 for emergency and you can also text your therapist anytime you need help with anything or just to talk. Hope my experience helps ya. You take care of yourself.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Suboxone can be amazing for getting your life back in order, I'll give it that.


I've been on it over 5 years now & for me, it's almost impossible to get off of. And the good effects have gone down to absolutely nothing except feeling tired & lethargic every day. If I don't take the subs, I'll sweat like crazy & become very restless. But when I do take the subs, I'll feel slightly better & then just feel ready for bed the rest of the day. I think it's actually made my depression worse & I think it's also caused me hyperalgesia. I can't say for sure the subs did it, cause I also had mono as a teenager (which means I have epstein-barr virus living in me forever, which can cause cause chronic fatigue & cancer later in life). But I'm constantly in pain & aching. Feels like when you work out really hard & are sore for a couple days, except I feel that way all the time without even working out.

So definitely think long and hard about it. I'm not against suboxone or opioid maintenance therapy at all. In fact, I think we should have more choices than just suboxone. I won't even consider methadone because you basically have to give up your life & privacy to be on that one. But these super long acting ones, especially a partial agonist like bupe, really quit helping with much after a certain time being on them.

 

[Rwillis64]

Suboxone can be amazing for getting your life back in order, I'll give it that.


I've been on it over 5 years now & for me, it's almost impossible to get off of. And the good effects have gone down to absolutely nothing except feeling tired & lethargic every day. If I don't take the subs, I'll sweat like crazy & become very restless. But when I do take the subs, I'll feel slightly better & then just feel ready for bed the rest of the day. I think it's actually made my depression worse & I think it's also caused me hyperalgesia. I can't say for sure the subs did it, cause I also had mono as a teenager (which means I have epstein-barr virus living in me forever, which can cause cause chronic fatigue & cancer later in life). But I'm constantly in pain & aching. Feels like when you work out really hard & are sore for a couple days, except I feel that way all the time without even working out.

So definitely think long and hard about it. I'm not against suboxone or opioid maintenance therapy at all. In fact, I think we should have more choices than just suboxone. I won't even consider methadone because you basically have to give up your life & privacy to be on that one. But these super long acting ones, especially a partial agonist like bupe, really quit helping with much after a certain time being on them.

Thanks for that info. Definitely going to talk to doc and therapist about that. I don't want to feel good for a year or two, knowing a big crash is going to be coming down the line. Appreciate it.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Thanks for that info. Definitely going to talk to doc and therapist about that. I don't want to feel good for a year or two, knowing a big crash is going to be coming down the line. Appreciate it.

Absolutely.

Definitely weigh your pro's & cons.
Doctors also grossly over prescribe suboxone.

It's hell withdrawing from a 2mg buprenorphine habit, let a lone a 24mg or 32mg one, which doctors tend to go for the highest dose allowed.
In a way this makes people who were just addicted to regular short acting full agonists, even more addicted to a more potent partial agonist, but with less of the same positive benefits (mood lift, energy, antidepression, pain relief, etc..)

I asked my clinic once how they go about taking people off subs if they get kicked off or want to come off & they said they taper you over 6 months and then recommend inpatient treatment because the withdrawals can be that bad.


However, if you are some one who knows they absolutely cannot stay off of opioids, some times buprenorphine would be a better option than playing russian roulette with street "heroin" now a days.

There are some positives about bupe, but it can definitely be a life-altering decision to make. Good luck with everything OP!

 

[Conky]

^^Ha, I got prescribed suboxone because of a kratom habit

I was up to 30mg daily towards the end

It was awful, especially the constipation. I decided to go cold turkey after a toilet overflow incident in which I had to use all the clean towels to soak up the shitty water.

I did not notice ANY withdrawals at all. I was on benzos and meth so maybe that's why. But still.

 

[Waffleicious]

Good question as I haven't a clue. It is a shame to think that someone seeking help would land on a "junkie" register somewhere. Just seems counter productive but then do they really wanna see us succeed? That would be less for "them" and "they" all about "themselves".
I find subs help with my mental stability. I found out that my doctor is a sub doc in town and maybe I will talk to him about it. Subs helps immensely with physical pains in my case and it's loooong lasting so wouldn't have to abuse it. Maybe it's the aches/pains that have a negative effect on my dispositions. Totally logical for me but I know there are some deep seated mental issues going way back that I chip at once in a while but have never really come to terms. Wondering if a life of kratom or a life of subs would be the lesser of evils...?

Amen to that, brother. Cannot even add to this.
Also wondering: At our age (assuming here that we are in our 50s)... would it really matter what druggie list we end up on? Speaking for myself I have dealt with felony convictions since since 1984 (DUIs since before then). In relation/perspective; a dope fiend tag couldnt hurt much, yeah?
This has got me thinking how long a low dose bupre regimen would last. What are the physical drawbacks. Further mental degradation. Guess a lot of research is in order to facilitate a better decision on my part but it is starting to look promising. IDK
BL is definitively thought provoking. Rare are the times I log in that a new or different perspective is provided and another aspect of our humanity is revealed. Some rather life changing.
Anti depressants has never worked on my issues and has only created other problems but this is my experience. As stated; they work for many.

Yeah I agree it's always about the treatment, never about the cure. Gotta keep you coming back for more!
but in regards to being on some junkie registry, I am currently 30 and *knocks on wood* don't have anything on my record except being prescribed Naltrexone for OUD about a year ago. Initially, I took the script for Naltrexone over BUP because I didn't want that Junkie Flag and my psychiatrist told me that because it wasn't a narcotic or controlled substance, I wouldn't get that flag. For the fist 10 months, though, every doctor could clearly see that I got prescribed Naltrexone for Opiate Use Disorder and that was just as big of a red flag to anyone with a brain. After 10 months, though, they had transitioned me through so many types of antidepressants that the Naltrexone was bumped further and further down the list to the point where they don't see it unless they really look.

My brother works in a pharmacy, though, and he said there's actually an icon that comes up beside someone's name if they've ever been prescribed BUP so they know to double check potentially abusable medicines.

Not that I'm intending to con a pharmacy, well, not in the US at least LOL
I guess I just still don't want that label...

Absolutely.

Definitely weigh your pro's & cons.
Doctors also grossly over prescribe suboxone.

It's hell withdrawing from a 2mg buprenorphine habit, let a lone a 24mg or 32mg one, which doctors tend to go for the highest dose allowed.
In a way this makes people who were just addicted to regular short acting full agonists, even more addicted to a more potent partial agonist, but with less of the same positive benefits (mood lift, energy, antidepression, pain relief, etc..)

I asked my clinic once how they go about taking people off subs if they get kicked off or want to come off & they said they taper you over 6 months and then recommend inpatient treatment because the withdrawals can be that bad.


However, if you are some one who knows they absolutely cannot stay off of opioids, some times buprenorphine would be a better option than playing russian roulette with street "heroin" now a days.

There are some positives about bupe, but it can definitely be a life-altering decision to make. Good luck with everything OP!

Yeah I think the WDs are gonna be awful which is part of the reason I don't want to do it. And like @nomorebenzos , I'd be transitioning off of a Kratom habit which shouldn't be nearly as bad to get off of as Subs. Then again, Kratom doesn't treat my symptoms nearly as well as BUP does. Also, like you said, you found that the positive effects went away but now you feel like you're too hooked to get off of it... that's exactly what I'm worried about!! Go through all this shit just to find something that works for you for a year or two at best and then you're back in the same position, if not an even worse one! AND you're stuck flying that Junkie flag!
Also, I totally believe that my long-term use of opioids has led me to develop hyperalgesia as well. I was recently hospitalized in an accident and was in sooooo much fucking pain. I mean I was seriously injured -ended up on crutches, had to get stitches, had a number of wounds and bruises, etc- but I didn't break any bones and I was like writhing in pain in the ER. They gave me a 5/325 hydro and were like "this is some strong pain medicine so we're going to have to observe you for a while to make sure you don't pass out" but seriously it took that hydro plus a big shot of torodol, plus a 10mg oxy to make me stop writhing. I was only at like 5g of Kratom/day at this point but maybe I just have a perma-tolerance to opioids too...

But I actually DO like that BUP is a high affinity, partial agonist with a long mechanism of action. For me, a lot of negative feelings start to bubble up through the comedown of a short-lasting, full agonist. If you don't feel as high as you would from a full agonist, it only makes sense that the comedown from a partial agonist wouldn't be as much of a freefall. (Notice I said comedowns, not withdrawals!) - like going over a big hill vs climbing and repelling down a sheer cliffside... idk.

I can't believe @nomorebenzos CT'd off of 30mg BUP. That sounds nucking futs

[edit]
I like this taper guide btw

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I've only ever had to seriously withdrawal from bupe once.

It was for a little over a week that I had to go without it & I did not sleep at all for that entire week.


This is just speculatory but with bupe being an antagonist at kappa receptors, I wonder what kind of rebound withdrawal effects would come from that. They say bupe blocking the kappa receptors means dynorphins can't attach, which are endogenous opioid peptides that attach to the receptor when we are stressed out or feeling malaise, etc... Makes me think that chronically blocking it for years & then stopping might provoke some really dysphoric (maybe even hallucinatory) kappa rebound effects.

 

[Waffleicious]

I've only ever had to seriously withdrawal from bupe once.

It was for a little over a week that I had to go without it & I did not sleep at all for that entire week.


This is just speculatory but with bupe being an antagonist at kappa receptors, I wonder what kind of rebound withdrawal effects would come from that. They say bupe blocking the kappa receptors means dynorphins can't attach, which are endogenous opioid peptides that attach to the receptor when we are stressed out or feeling malaise, etc... Makes me think that chronically blocking it for years & then stopping might provoke some really dysphoric (maybe even hallucinatory) kappa rebound effects.

OK I was literally just reading about this and this is the first time I've heard someone mention hallucinatory effects... I mean Opium/Laudanum had a big reputation for lucid dreams and some hallucinations, but other than that, you don't really hear about them. I've been on this illegal BUP for 5 days now and I swear to God each day I get more and more vivid hallucinations. Like I've been having to work super late at night, alone in a pretty big warehouse-restaurant and yeah that can be creepy but I've done it plenty of times. In the last couple days I've straight up been seeing people when there's an object somewhat roughly person sized. I've been seeing weird movements out of the corner of my eye. I've been hearing voices! I have also been having craaaazily vivid dreams and have been twitching and talking in my sleep. The twitching has made me pretty nervous because I'll wake from a dream into a violent twitch that almost feels like DXM/TCA brain zaps. Makes me worried I'm having a seizure because I just "come to" and I'm twitching violently... And doesn't BUP lower your seizure threshold? I know Wellbutrin does and I'm currently on both of those meds... Don't really feel like hallucinating myself into a seizure-coma today lol

^But heyyyy that's a good thing! Means I don't feel like dying right now! More often than not a seizure-coma wouldn't sound too bad

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

OK I was literally just reading about this and this is the first time I've heard someone mention hallucinatory effects... I mean Opium/Laudanum had a big reputation for lucid dreams and some hallucinations, but other than that, you don't really hear about them. I've been on this illegal BUP for 5 days now and I swear to God each day I get more and more vivid hallucinations. Like I've been having to work super late at night, alone in a pretty big warehouse-restaurant and yeah that can be creepy but I've done it plenty of times. In the last couple days I've straight up been seeing people when there's an object somewhat roughly person sized. I've been seeing weird movements out of the corner of my eye. I've been hearing voices! I have also been having craaaazily vivid dreams and have been twitching and talking in my sleep. The twitching has made me pretty nervous because I'll wake from a dream into a violent twitch that almost feels like DXM/TCA brain zaps. Makes me worried I'm having a seizure because I just "come to" and I'm twitching violently... And doesn't BUP lower your seizure threshold? I know Wellbutrin does and I'm currently on both of those meds... Don't really feel like hallucinating myself into a seizure-coma today lol

^But heyyyy that's a good thing! Means I don't feel like dying right now! More often than not a seizure-coma wouldn't sound too bad

Technically, being an antagonist at kappa, bupe should stop hallucinatory stuff. But I wonder if the kappa rebound effects during withdrawal could cause some one to hallucinate.

It's not impossible tho to get hallucinatory effects from bupe or any opioid really. Some might be more predisposed to it than others & some opioids might cause it & some not.


I too used to get some hypnagogic hallucinations on bupe. For example I'd be getting ready to fall asleep and swear I hear somebody walking by my window singing or something, but the I look and there was actually nobody there.

I use to get seizure-like stuff when I started on it too. Although it's hard to tell what was because of the bupe or what was because of all the DXM, meth & all the other drugs I had been doing for so long. Could have been a combo of both things.

I've had myoclonic jerks most of the time on bupe as well. Whenever I would try to relax and go to sleep, before I'd even get to sleep, my limbs or entire body would jerk. Some times it was just my legs would jerk by themselves, or my torso. Some times my entire body would jerk like some one electrocuted me.

It got to be so bad that I went to doctors & neurologists for it. Was put on benzos and muscle relaxers, which didn't stop the jerks either. After a few years I started having them while I wide awake & upright.

I had an EEG done that came back with severely abnormal brainwaves. So they did a cat scan on my head & neck, but said the scans were normal & didn't wanna do anymore testing. So I have no idea what caused these myoclonic jerks. They started long before I was on bupe though. They actually started after I accidentally gave myself convulsions from mixing too much DXM & effexor.

So I have no idea anymore. lol I really relate & can empathize with those who have health problems & absolutely no answers as to why they're having them.

After about 6 or 7 years of body jerking tho, it seems in the past 4 months or so, they have almost altogether stopped. Which is a nice thing. But they can be tricky, as in they've stopped for a few weeks before & I thought I'd be in the clear & then they come back with a vengeance for awhile. They've never disappeared for 4 months like this time though, so I'm hoping they never come back. And I guess I'll never know what truly caused them.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I just still don't want that label...

I get this. There is def a stigma attached even though those looking down their noses are often "dirtier" than we and are following a socially accepted way of hiding their own faults to make themselve feel superior in some way. At the end of the day, though, this is self destructive to these hypocrites.
I would imagine that anything we use to cover our problems are temporary fixes and will only last for so long. Speaking on the lasting effects of say bupre that may only help for a year or whatever. I actually started at .5g kratom 4 times a day. After 4 years or so I am at 2g 5-6 times a day. Just an example....
Hope we all get right eventually.
Peace

 

[Rwillis64]

Technically, being an antagonist at kappa, bupe should stop hallucinatory stuff. But I wonder if the kappa rebound effects during withdrawal could cause some one to hallucinate.

It's not impossible tho to get hallucinatory effects from bupe or any opioid really. Some might be more predisposed to it than others & some opioids might cause it & some not.


I too used to get some hypnagogic hallucinations on bupe. For example I'd be getting ready to fall asleep and swear I hear somebody walking by my window singing or something, but the I look and there was actually nobody there.

I use to get seizure-like stuff when I started on it too. Although it's hard to tell what was because of the bupe or what was because of all the DXM, meth & all the other drugs I had been doing for so long. Could have been a combo of both things.

I've had myoclonic jerks most of the time on bupe as well. Whenever I would try to relax and go to sleep, before I'd even get to sleep, my limbs or entire body would jerk. Some times it was just my legs would jerk by themselves, or my torso. Some times my entire body would jerk like some one electrocuted me.

It got to be so bad that I went to doctors & neurologists for it. Was put on benzos and muscle relaxers, which didn't stop the jerks either. After a few years I started having them while I wide awake & upright.

I had an EEG done that came back with severely abnormal brainwaves. So they did a cat scan on my head & neck, but said the scans were normal & didn't wanna do anymore testing. So I have no idea what caused these myoclonic jerks. They started long before I was on bupe though. They actually started after I accidentally gave myself convulsions from mixing too much DXM & effexor.

So I have no idea anymore. lol I really relate & can empathize with those who have health problems & absolutely no answers as to why they're having them.

After about 6 or 7 years of body jerking tho, it seems in the past 4 months or so, they have almost altogether stopped. Which is a nice thing. But they can be tricky, as in they've stopped for a few weeks before & I thought I'd be in the clear & then they come back with a vengeance for awhile. They've never disappeared for 4 months like this time though, so I'm hoping they never come back. And I guess I'll never know what truly caused them.

I have been having some of those effects from Sub. Yeah, I would probably call them hallucinations usually happening right before I fall asleep or right when I wake up. Also, seen the flashes of shadowy figures out of the corner-of-the eye..but what really freaks me out is when listening to music at work, I will hear 2 or 3 other songs overlaid ontop of them....really strange. But I'll take that over living the way I have for most of my life. So now I'm getting it together? When I'm on the downslope of life?....think I'll just coast downhill hopefully for another good 10 to 20 years...there will be a signup sheet for liver and kidney donations..lol

 

[Eligiu]

I have been on Suboxone 5 times since age 17.

Truthfully, I've not stayed on it long enough each time except my promise for this current time.

First time, at 17, the agreement with the drug of dependance unit for them to approve maintenance therapy for a minor was treatment lasting no more than 6 months. We followed their rule.

Next time, August 2017 and I finally came to the end of a 8 month long heroin/codeine/Oxycodone binge.

After that, a year or so later. It's a bit of a blur like there was this one time in between the others that was super short.

In 2020 I went on after poppy seed tea in July til Feb 2021

June 2021 went on after learning DNM sourcing of heroin and realising I had done myself a huge disservice by learning that.

Here's the thing. Do you reckon it will help you more than it will cause negative aspects to your life. I haven't a clue where you live so I'm unsure as to whether you're subject to a daily dosing regimen like I was which resulted in several failed attempts at treatment as my impatient ass got resentful at being reminded of my junky behaviour every morning at the chemist.

So I requested the monthly injection as I meet criteria and I don't get that same feeling of resentment.

I finished a law degree on suboxone. Anyone who says it's swapping one addiction for another and it isn't clean is not paying attention. My GPA was fucking tanked into the ground andi got a post semester course withdrawal no fail recorded the years of my heavy meth and codeine/heroin use. The rest of my degree? Straight credits and distinctions, a couple high discintions.

I stayed on a low dose on purpose. I'd stabilise at the appropriate dose then drop down asap. It reduced any sort of drowsiness or tiredness residually from the dose.

I did feel like my emotions are. Abit dulled on the medication and it's like a safety blanket or sorts. Maybe I need that.

Take laxatives. Do not miss this advice.

If you think you can work with how the medicine is designed to be prescribed and used and won't shoot it, snort it, smoke it, or try and blast through the roof with mega fent shots and utilise it as a barrier for use, then it could be your much easier than total 12 step type abstinence ticket to a drug free life. I know I'd take a decade of the buvidal injection over fukcing around trying to stay off heroin without the help. Good joke. Like I'd rather wake up and fight heroin cravings days on end when I can legit just not think about it.

A drug which is worth the stigma in my opinion

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I just wanna be able to take pure heroin (intranasally) a few times a day, every day.

Then my life might actually be worth it. lol


Suboxone just makes me feel tired & blah. And constipated.

I've been on subs years now & I still crave or at least think about heroin every day. So it's no magic cure.

 

[Nas47]

Good acting for me....besides,that i don't feel it at all.In fact this is the best subst.tool for me personally.Guess long withdrawls,but feel no toxic,unlike methadone.Kratom is maybe better option,but is illegal here and very hard to stand on low dose(under 10g daily).Kind a russian rollete too,cause you don't know how would affect you until you start the intake....always try to establish lowest possible dose....goodluck man.

 

[Man67]

Hey guys.

I've been into drugs since I can remember, trying everything from RC Benzos to Meth to Opium, Rolls, Younameit®, however I've always had an affinity for opioids.

To give you some background information, I come from a family with a history of addiction. Not my parents, but my grandparents on both sides as well as their grandparents. Since my parents never talked about it and were pretty much sober the entire time, it just wasn't something I worried about. Both my immediate and extended family -as well as myself- suffer from a heck of a lot of depression, anxiety, and suicidal behaviors. When I was quite young, I had extremely bad asthma and was hospitalized a number of times because of it. I was put on Singulair at the age of 9 and stayed on it throughout highschool and early college. We (doctors, parents, and myself included) did not know at the time that Singulair has around a 10% chance of drastically exacerbating depression and suicidal behavior in those that use it. So I spent a massive portion of my developmental years horribly depressed with multiple attempts at suicide. I just didn't know a life without depression -until DRUGS! Yay drugs!

I ended up getting involved in all sorts of procuring, distributing, and consuming whatever I could get my hands on. It gave me a sense of relief, a sense of excitement, a bunch of money, new "friends", etc... I never let my (ab)use really effect my work/school and excelled at both, graduating college early and becoming Head Chef of a snooty restaurant by 24. It was around that age that I began to feel the emptiness and dissatisfaction that stems from living a life constantly high. I still didn't realize that the addiction was the issue, I just kind of assumed a needed a big change because my life wasn't headed in a direction I was happy with.

So I packed up and moved to Thailand. I cold turkey quit everything (was on 60-90mg of morphine/day plus whatever stims, psychedelics, weed, oxys, or fent) and made the journey. I was living by myself for a brief period and was bored one day, so I decided to see what I could snag from local pharmacies -since things can slip through the cracks in a city like Bangkok. After trying about 9 different pharmacies, I came across one that I convinced to sell me Tramadol. Boom. Back on opiates. I rarely ever abused, abused the tramadol while I was there but I had it in my system on a daily basis for the next two years. While living there I got another degree, got a girlfriend, and was probably the happiest I've ever been. But it was all still under the guise of avoiding reality. I even got into meditation, exercise, and healthy eating, but I still relied on Tramadol to keep me in balance and not depressed.

When I moved back to the States I fell back in with my old crew and got right back into the same shit. I totally burnt myself out on MDA/MDMA to the point where the "magic" is just nonexistent. I then moved onto microdosing LSD regularly and felt great, preformed highly at my job, got a few promotions and the best money I'd ever made, and was still left unhappy. By this point, I could no longer enjoy L because my mind immediately went into this mathematical, cause-effect, problem-solving, work-mode whenever I took it.

I still felt unfulfilled and depressed, feeling like I had made zero positive momentum in the last few years and had wound up in the same place, doing the same shit, just spinning my wheels. So I sought out antidepressants. Without a doctor. I knew I had an affinity for opiates and was still in denial about my addiction, so when I found Tianeptine and read all the horror stories about people getting addicted and having to take massive doses and how coming off of it was way harder than quitting smack, I was like "maybe for you pussies but I'll be fine!". It didn't work out so well.

Tianeptine is hell. This is the first time I ever realized that I was addicted and that I had actually been addicted to having SOME substance in my body for years. Coming off of that shit was a nightmare. It took me about 2 years. I was able to come off of it with the help of Gabapentin and Tramadol. Then I became very addicted to tramadol. After about a year of that -all the while hiding this shit from my girlfriend that I lived with and my family members- I managed to get off of Tramadol and onto Kratom.

Kratom was great and helped me satisfy that craving for opioids while giving me energy and motivation to get things done. It gave me some anxiety, though, so I relied more heavily on Benzos (which had also been a part of my drug cocktails for the last 4 years). I also developed a decent addiction to Alcohol because everywhere I worked for the last 4-5 years I would get limitless free drinks. Then in the last 6 months, Cocaine became a much more frequent visitor.

Over the last 4 months, I have been really trying to stay clean, but fall into binges every now and then whenever I am tempted or just say "Fuck it!" when things get too hard.
Every day I wake up feeling hopeless. I have no desire to have hope. I have no motivation to keep going. I contemplate suicide on a daily basis but I know I won't do it because it would hurt my family too much. I have no desire to hurt anyone, myself included. I just don't have the desire to exist.

So after nearly 2 months of total sobriety I find myself back on Kratom and Alcohol which mitigate my symptoms of just wanting to die, but also don't at the same time. It's a fucking struggle to do anything. I should also mention that I am on 150mg Wellbutrin XL (bupropion) and 75mg Effexor (venlafaxine) daily.

Last week a friend of mine told me to try some of his Subs (buprenorphine/naloxone) and HOLY SHIT I FEEL LIKE A HUMAN AGAIN! I am motivated. I have energy. I am excited about the future and am working towards goals -I haven't had DESIRES in quite some fucking time, let alone GOALS. I'm only taking around 1.5mg/day (8mg strip cut into 16ths, taking 3/16ths) and I can see my depression and just choose not to succumb to it. I don't have any desire to take other opiates or to drink. I feel like I have control of my life for the first time in a long time.

But do I really? Or am I just trading one substance for another like I've done the majority of my life? Furthermore, there's a lot of bullshit that comes with getting prescribed Suboxone. You have your constant drug tests, mandatory meetings (which I really feel like I don't have time for), and you get a big red mark on your chart that says to every doctor, therapist, and clinician that, "Hey! I'm an addict!!". I have no idea how long -if ever- that would take to go away. I just know that right now I do feel better than I have in ages. I have done a lot of research on buprenorphine, naloxone, and naltrexone on opiate use disorder and on depression and it appears to be somewhat of a wonder drug. However I'm not without knowing that it, too is addictive and that the withdrawal symptoms, while potentially more acute, could last a lot longer than traditional opiates

So on that note...

TL;DR

I have a long history of drug use that began out of a desire to combat extreme depression with suicidal behavior. After a number of years of moving from one drug to the next and still feeling empty and suicidal, I tried Suboxone and it appears to work miracles. Is it worth it for me to seek it out and get it prescribed? Or am I better off barely managing my issues with antidepressants and self-medication of kratom and alcohol?

Thanks for taking the time to read, I appreciate any and all advice or insight.

From my personal experience, Suboxone is a MIRACLE! I was at the bottom and after taking my first dose of Sub., I woke up next morning and something was strange? There was no more depression and pain. I was "normal" for the first time in 15 years. I will be on Suboxone for life, and that is the fact. People with Diabetes take Insulin every day. People like us have to take Sub. every day. There is no other alternative if you want to live. That's a fact. Find the right dose, take it every day in the morning and everything will be fine. Good luck.