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The Big & Dandy 1P-LSD Thread, Volume 1

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jason7

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If there will be ETH-LAD available soon I would wait for that instead of getting the 1P-LSD. From what I've read I think it will be better. On another forum somebody said they took 300 mcg of 1P-LSD and had pretty bad bodyload, so it may not be smoother than LSD after all, as I suggested in an earlier post. The mental effects may indeed be less though, because I read that LSD causes a lot of EEG activity while ALD-52 caused no increase at all. Probably better not to have your brain going wild with electrical activity, but maybe that's the part that makes it interesting, who knows.

The TIHKAL description of ETH-LAD suggests that it has virtually no bodyload or unpleasant side effects. May turn out that it's about the same as AL-LAD or PRO-LAD (which the few posts I found on it said it was unimpressive), or it may just be unique enough to be quite different. Have to wait for the TRs I guess.
 

theacidtest

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I wouldn't be too turned off by a report of bodyload at 300ug. After all, there's a surprising number of people on bluelight who say they get a lot of bodyload from LSD.
 

Jesusgreen

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What I read is that it really was ALD-52 but the producers decided to say it was LSD so only a few people ever knew what it really was.

It's the other way around. The product tested positive for LSD, the producers tried to defend themselves in court by saying it was ALD-52 and must have turned into LSD due to degrading/error in the process/etc - they had the book thrown at them since if they knew it readily degraded into illegal LSD then they knew their stash was basically just LSD waiting to form. They were sentenced and thrown in prison.

They never found any traces of ALD-52 as far as I'm aware in any of the tested samples, and I recall that even if ALD-52 did break down into LSD the change would be slow and there would be ALD-52 present in the sample, which would rule out the ALD-52 Orange Sunshine theory. It could just be a different ratio of stereoisomers, the high dose present, or something else to blame for why they were so popular. Hell, Hofmanns are popular today and half the Hofmanns going around are DOx or NBOMes now, popular doesn't necessarily insinuate they were actually any better.

Plus, everything I heard dose wise was these babies were around 250-300ug a piece, most people aren't aware of how strong/weak their LSD actually is, and think average hits are 150ug or 200ug, when its more like 50-100ug. With 25ug being enough to trip, 50ug being enough for a solid ++/+++ (set/setting dependent, though light on visuals at this dose), and 100ug being enough for a strong trip both visually (ever so slightly less so mentally, very easygoing.. but also very deep/healing) if you have no tolerance. Now if 100ug is a strong trip to most with low tolerance, imagine eating 3x that, considering that most psychedelics have a very non-linear dose response curve and 3x the dose is often 7-10x the intensity.

I've had some beautiful 210ug Dalai Lama blotters and they were the most wonderful thing I've come into contact with since AMT psychedelic wise. I imagine the reputation came from them being reliably dosed so damn high, even back then, you were probably getting 100-200ug on most of the stronger blotters, 250-300ug-ers would have been less common and made themselves a bit of fame when they appeared.

----

Off topic blabber aside, I have another question regarding this whole thing, has anyone sent any 1P-LSD off for testing yet, I'm curious how various tests react to it and if simply testing it would be enough to hydrolise it to LSD (I always wondered if the ALD-52 thing was real and it was the tests themselves doing the converting, not time), if so people need to know and realise that they'll be treated as if it's LSD in court and by the Police, and if so, we also need to see if there are tests that can determine between the two without causing such a reaction, so people who get busted with this stuff know what to tell the Police to do to insure their innocence and freedom are maintained. :)
 

Solipsis

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I was concerned about the same thing with the hydrolysis, but have been reassured that the theory checks out so that that group is actually plenty stable. But I guess only real analysis will tell. I'd be glad to send one off when I get a sample, but what I am concerned about is whether they can even tell the difference... depending on whether actual GC/MS type stuff is applied or reference samples are heavily used, which I trust they will be painfully lacking. Domestically I fear they will be useless dicks about it when I submit it (I have gotten very incomplete data as result - for example they couldn't really say much about my mescaline other than that it was of very high quality... clearly they are not used to having to relay actual numbers and values but rather to inform the laymen, even if illiterate or something like that - although a % would be the least they could do :| )
But I have faith in something like Energy Control. I will only sacrifice my time and precious sample to a lab that actually knows what to do with it.
 

jason7

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Re Cal Sunshine being ALD-52, it does seem to make more sense that it was just a claim made by the makers to try to get off. It's not that easy to hydrolize that it could happen from moisture in air and to 100%. You need to add base to the water for it to hydrolize. Besides, I don't believe there is an alternate route to ALD-52 that does not involve LSD as the precurser. But then, they could say that they made the LSD and converted it to ALD on a boat hundreds of miles offshore in the international zone. That way LSD would never have been present on US soil. I'm pretty sure the cops seized the lab anyway though, so pretty hard to explain that away. Somebody should ask the maker, Nick Sand. He got out of prison a few years ago.
 
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Toltec

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Re Cal Sunshine being ALD-52:
I've Talked with Owsley Stanley about 5 years ago... Via email... I've Taken OS and it was a life changer... I needed to know what it was... Only because it was very different then a lot of LSD, i have taken during the early 70's....

He told me it was LSD not ALD-52 and it was 300 ug... so there you have it.... Believe it or not... also it was blessed and the handlers who distributed, where very loving & peaceful people, during this time....

Also i can't wait to try 1p-LSD.. as well...
 

Solipsis

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I understand speculation and rumors about other lysergamides surfacing seem mostly what is available as topic of discussion here... but we are losing the plot again cryptically talking about sources. Just don't please.

I guess there is a point in checking laws on ALD-52, if they are analogue laws they are likely to extend to 1P-LSD... otherwise it should be in the clear. Also if ALD stands for Acetyl Lysergic acid Diethylamide, 1P-LSD would be PLD right?
 

perpetualdawn

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Also if ALD stands for Acetyl Lysergic acid Diethylamide, 1P-LSD would be PLD right?

What is the "52" part of ALD-52? Just a series number like the 25 in LSD-25?

I wish we were calling 1P-LSD either PLD or np-lad, I think it might sit under the radar for longer without "LSD" in it's name. Maybe it's easier to sell in the short term like this tho.
 

Si Dread

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What is the "52" part of ALD-52? Just a series number like the 25 in LSD-25?

I wish we were calling 1P-LSD either PLD or np-lad, I think it might sit under the radar for longer without "LSD" in it's name. Maybe it's easier to sell in the short term like this tho.

Yeah, nice thinking. Too late now though... Perhaps it'll get a cool street name other than 1P...

Good question about the 52... I always just assumed it was something to do with reversing the 25 in LSD-25... I doubt they worked through 52 ALD's to get to an active one, but isn't that pretty much exactly why LSD is 25. It did take 25 tries before Hoffman accidentally poisoned himself... did it not?
 

Incunabula

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I totally agree with the name, perp. Also 1-P just sounds stupid, but what ever......

Yeah, Si, LSD was the 25th lysergamide in the series he was making, I think.
 

Sir Ron Pib

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PRO-LAD (which the few posts I found on it said it was unimpressive), or it may just be unique enough to be quite different. Have to wait for the TRs I guess.

I'd think PRO-LAD would be really interesting to explore - there aren't many reports so we have seen the same ones - there's not much to go on; the ones in thikal aren't by and large negative. The first report was mild, second says not up to LSD (if that is your standard) - good as many are I could say that of most psychedelics TBH, then 'because it basically isn't like LSD' which interests me. The last report actually says quite a lot positive. I don't want it to be LSD and would want to explore something different. Finally there is a report on Bluelight which sounds fine

Of course all this talk isn't about 1P-LSD and maybe that is because it really isn't very different to LSD which is such a well know well documented thing and doesn't bring anything new to the table. Like someone said here I wasn't sure if it's identical quite but darn close if not.
 

kman1898

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I wish we were calling 1P-LSD either PLD or np-lad, I think it might sit under the radar for longer without "LSD" in it's name. Maybe it's easier to sell in the short term like this tho.

If you actually think a name is going to throw off LE from what the substance really is you are sorely mistaken. IMO it matters not what we cal it. As soon as an image went up with its exo-skeleton it's already over.

Posted this a few other places but it seems necessary.

Here's what you need to know about ALD-52, below is an excerpt from Scully's upcoming book.

January 1974 - Lester Friedman was acquitted of drug charges because Tim Scully testified that he himself taught Nick Sand how to make “acid.” During a recess in the trial, Lester Friedman made a little “ALD-52” which he gave to Tim Scully to submit into evidence after tableting. Unfortunately Tim Scully didn’t know that Lester Friedman wasn’t a very good LSD chemist (Nick Sand later told him) and either the “ALD-52” was incredibly unstable and/or Lester Friedman failed to make it. The defense team didn’t have time to have it lab tested before Tim Scully put it into evidence and when the government tested it they found it to be LSD resulting in the conviction of Nick Sand and Tim Scully.


Here's a quote from a correspondence I had with Dave Nichols on ALD-52.

It is well known in organic chemistry that N-acyl indoles of all kinds hydrolyze easily. Whether or not it hydrolyzes in the body has not been tested. Taken orally, the low pH of the stomach would likely take it off readily. At some point, you have to accept that some mechanisms in organic chemistry are accepted, although the exact experiment appears not to have been done on ALD-52. LSD tartrate is not absorbed through the skin, and no amine salts are. LSD free base could be absorbed through the skin if it was applied as a solution, and especially if it was applied in a DMSO solution. If Hofmann had purified the LSD by column chromatography, it came off the column as a solution in benzene/acetone. He also mentions that he knew it couldn’t have been dichloromethane, which also dissolves LSD free base, so it is possible he had a solution of LSD in that solvent. If the solution had dried on his fingertips (they didn’t use rubber gloves back then) and he scratched his lips, his eyes, or picked his nose, some of it might have been transferred into his body, but it is unlikely that it was absorbed through his skin. I have spoken at length with him about this issue, and he has no idea how he got it into his body. I and my students made LSD on many occasions, and we were actually pretty sloppy in working with it, always hoping to get an “accidental” intoxication. It never happened. And in the 1980s we didn’t use rubber gloves either. Keep in mind that Swiss and German chemists were very meticulous in their laboratory habits, and Albert knew that ergot alkaloids were very potent, so the idea of him carelessly getting a solution of LSD free base on his fingers and not immediately washing it off (before it could be absorbed, which would take some time) is not very realistic.

I don’t think any mysticism is involved. It is a simple extrapolation from de-acetylation of all indoles under mild conditions, to deacetylation of ALD-52 in vivo. From what we now know about the structure-activity relationships of LSD analogues, the N(1)-acetyl compound would not be active. If it is active in man, it is only by hydrolysis of the acetyl group to give LSD.


Also since this is a 1P-LSD I thought I add some more information Dave gave me.

I am sure that the 1-propionyl would also hydrolyze off of an indole, but I don't know whether in vivo conditions would work. In a chemistry lab, you can get off an N-benzoyl, so an N-propionyl will probably come off too. But in the body? I don't know the answer to that. The compound would not be active as the N-propionyl however. The way that LSD docks into the 5-HT2A receptor, the indole NH hydrogen bonds to serine 5.46. With the propionyl, it won't fit into the receptor.

Re Cal Sunshine being ALD-52, it does seem to make more sense that it was just a claim made by the makers to try to get off. It's not that easy to hydrolize that it could happen from moisture in air and to 100%. You need to add base to the water for it to hydrolize. Besides, I don't believe there is an alternate route to ALD-52 that does not involve LSD as the precurser. But then, they could say that they made the LSD and converted it to ALD on a boat hundreds of miles offshore in the international zone. That way LSD would never have been present on US soil. I'm pretty sure the cops seized the lab anyway though, so pretty hard to explain that away. Somebody should ask the maker, Nick Sand. He got out of prison a few years ago.

I asked Dr. Nichols about this as well. My questions were

The only synthetic route I can think of as readily viable is *sorry guys - but read the rules - NO synth discussion* If yes wouldn't it also be possible to do a similar reaction with 1P-LSD?

His answer was

I have no idea how quickly it would hydrolyze in vivo.

*sorry guys - but read the rules - NO synth discussion*
 
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jason7

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Somebody on another forum took 500 mcg and didn't even get that high. I don't think this compound is going to go far really. Looks like the only possible advantage is the legality.
 

sweatloaf13

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True true. My house recently got raided by the police & I had an big fucking collection of research chemicals. They charged me with those as schedule 1 drugs (most restricted class) even though most of the baggies said not for human consumption. I even got charged with 2 counts of manufacturing & distribution for putting DOC & 25B on acid tabs even though I wasn't selling them. I just had so much (actually only a couple grams) because DOC & 25B are so potent & cheap you gotta get like 500 doses at once minimum order lol. I'm almost sure I'll be going to jail or prison I also had regular illegals (+ lots of RCs not mentioned) & was charged with selling Heroin. I'm just out now because I made bail, $50,000 no 10%. Its my first time being arrested so maybe I'll get lucky & get probation but I doubt it. If I say I had no prior knowledge of the analog act & had no idea they were illegal, that I bought them online thinking it was a legal alternative, would that be a good defense? I've read that the law states you have to of knowingly committed the crime to be convicted of it or something like that.

Off topic sorry. On topic though I never heard before that ALD-52 broke down into LSD in the body. I thought it was like for example 4-HO-MET which has similar effects to psilocin (4-HO-DMT) but it's not a prodrug of psilocin it's active the way it is. ALD-52 has some significantly different effects compared to LSD like a shorter duration which isn't just in the head of the users like "less visuals". If ALD-52 isn't a prodrug to LSD than 1P-LSD likely isn't either. Just because the acetyl & propionyl groups break off simply from being exposed to water doesn't mean for sure it would have time to breakdown in the body. Enzymes are usually responsible for chemical break down. It does look like an enzyme would surely break it off but would it be the first group of atoms to be torn off before its not LSD? Who knows? Maybe it's active on it's own & is a prodrug.

I had the same experience, I was raided by the DEA for reasons I wont get into but in their investigation they seized several pkgs containing at least 15-20 compounds all together. At my house they found a gram of MDPV, 3 grams of DOI and a few baggies with residue or maybe a bump each. They also found a gram of rotted truffles and 2 ten strips. I was charged with poss of meth and mushrooms with intent. I wasnt charged for the others cuz they stated that they were "legal". I ended up with thirty months on lock(not only charges) which I just finished.

Sorry to veer off topic I just wanted to give an example of the "gray area"(and how stupid they were-thankfully-for not charging me with only controlled substance. I was TOLD that truffles were legal then but I cant say for sure).

Lucy remains my favorite, I tried ALD-52 and thought it was very impressive but "not quite" there. I dont think a replacement or equal will be found but thats just my personal inner-bias. Im no expert thats just my opinion...what the fuck do I know? :)
 

kman1898

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Somebody on another forum took 500 mcg and didn't even get that high. I don't think this compound is going to go far really. Looks like the only possible advantage is the legality.

second this. imo not looking good
 

Solipsis

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@ stories of being arrested - watch it with the questions about advice as we do not allow legal discussion.

@ someone not getting high off of it: first I would want to know is that person on medications? Maybe one on every ~10 people misses the enzyme to depropionylate the 1-position making this an inactive pointless would-be prodrug for LSD for those people.

Let's hear it from 10 or 100 people before we start coming up with judgements, not following one datapoint on inactivity... Cause so far it sounds to me like it is a pro-drug for LSD so it should be only marginally less potent cause of the extra molecular weight, or even less potent cause it takes a little time for the metabolism. It is also inconsistent with another report on activity from 100 ug. I wanna know why the discrepancy.
 

St3ve

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There's another thread on this compound on a British forum. Quite a few people have tried it there and all sorts of potencies are being reported... Some have a satisfying trip of one 100 mic tab, others say they'll take 1.5 or 2 next time. Some hardcore dudes are disappointed at 500 mics.

Sounds quite normal so far though, if you're a hardhead with other things, likely you'll need more of this than what others would consider a satisfying dose.
 

DrGreenthumb

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@ stories of being arrested - watch it with the questions about advice as we do not allow legal discussion.

@ someone not getting high off of it: first I would want to know is that person on medications? Maybe one on every ~10 people misses the enzyme to depropionylate the 1-position making this an inactive pointless would-be prodrug for LSD for those people.

Let's hear it from 10 or 100 people before we start coming up with judgements, not following one datapoint on inactivity... Cause so far it sounds to me like it is a pro-drug for LSD so it should be only marginally less potent cause of the extra molecular weight, or even less potent cause it takes a little time for the metabolism. It is also inconsistent with another report on activity from 100 ug. I wanna know why the discrepancy.

From the ALD-52 patent it says it's stable in an acidic solution, but forms LSD if heated for a few minutes in an alkali solution of calcium carbonate. Possible the variation in effect is because of ph.

From everything I've read so far it sounds like it's a prodrug for LSD & inactive on it's own, like ALD-52.

I have a few tabs, but I haven't eaten any yet. I'll try some, with an antacid for luck & report back, when I get time to sample it. I never like to be the first to try some new drug, but I've read enough reports to reassure me about it's relative safety now, so I'm just waiting for the right time to try it.

I found AL-LAD not very active myself, but most others loved it, can't judge off one person's single experience. Maybe next time I try AL-LAD I'll see what I missed before.

The person that reported on a 500ug dose noted "vague trippiness" not total inactivity. Apparently they aren't on any medication that might dull the effects & hadn't had any psychedelics for 10 days previously.

Others have reported it being almost as strong as LSD, most reports on that other forum seem to say it's more potent than AL-LAD & indistinguishable from LSD
 
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Solipsis

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Physiological conditions ALD-52 or 1P-LSD would be exposed to are not alkaline as far as I am aware.
 
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