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The Big & Dandy AMT / αMT Thread - 4th Rush

Do you get nauseous from AMT?

  • Yes, quite a bit / unusually so

    Votes: 37 25.0%
  • Yes, but only a little

    Votes: 55 37.2%
  • No

    Votes: 48 32.4%
  • Sometimes / Completely depends on whether it is salt or freebase

    Votes: 8 5.4%

  • Total voters
    148
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Solipsis

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Welcome to the Big & Dandy αMT Thread (Part 4)

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Alpha-Methyltryptamine

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Solipsis

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Part of where we left off / to kick off the new iteration:

I have some amt that I received in a trade with someone. I have not had the available time to test it out on myself. I have heard a lot about the smell associated with amt, but what I have has little to no smell, definitely not overwhelming like I have heard it described by many. Can anyone let me know if I should be worried about a possible chem mix up or something of that nature, or can the amt come without an overwhelming odor? Not sure if it is salt or freebase, but I am thinking it would be the freebase since it seems to be much more available.

I've had some aMT stored inside capsules in a cool dark place for around 15 months, will it still be usable?
 

Survived Abortion

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I wasn't sure how to reply on the poll, because from the one time that I've tried it so far, I don't recall being nauseaous to any extent that may have impacted the trip. I meditated with it, and breathed in to the experience. It was very rushy (as the thread title implies) and I can easily see how that would be interpreted as nausea if one didn't have the ability to dissipate or control/cycle the energy properly through the body.

A wonderful psychedelic though. I've never experienced anything quite like it.

EDIT: shit! I pressed the wrong button on the poll. I was supposed to vote no, but I mindlessly pressed yes! (if you can chage it soli?) :D

In response to feedyourdead, my batch of aMT has very little smell. Certainly not like the overpowering odour described by many. I can smell it, but it's definitely not a problem. It sticks to your fingers a bit, but you can easily wash it off.

EDIT 2: oh, and the aMT I have is the freebase, and it didn't produce nausea to the extent I had expected, if at all. I've found other chems like 2C-E and 2C-T-2 to be more nauseating in fact.
 

Solipsis

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I was in doubt about how to set up the poll, I was considering extra options regarding different chemical forms and different routes of administration but I don't want to get too many options or it will get hopelessly scattered.

I think I can fix your vote but do you have a suggestion what option should be added or modified?
 

Survived Abortion

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Haha! Thanks.

What did you vote? I'm assuming you voted yes since no body else has yet posted in this thread. If so, do you have the freebase or the HCL?
 

Solipsis

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I also voted no, there is indeed a voter who is keeping silent but I don't logically see why that user would have to be either a yay-sayer or nay-sayer. If you thought I created the poll because I get nauseous from it myself that would be a bit egocentric, instead I want to shine some light on the reputation AMT has. I don't know if it's only because Erowid's description in the vault immediately starts with the sentence:

AMT is a long-acting, synthetic psychedelic and euphoric stimulant known for causing nausea and vomiting.

And/or if there is a good body of evidence that nausea is unusually common with it.

I have used both freebase and HCl and I do not get nauseous, not even a little bit. I do get trancy and sleepy, I can sleep for miles on AMT which is very uncommon as far as I can tell.
 

Xtc <3

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Well I voted sometimes, the first two times I took AMT it made me vommit coming up, everytime I have smoked it I havn't had any problems with nausea, I have sampled both HCL and Freebase AMT and vommited once off each, however the last time I took it there wasn't even a hint of nausea or not even anything remotely negative, I was amazed at how overwhelmingly euphoric it was, based on that trip I completely agree that it can blow MDMA out of the water.

Now I am begginning to wonder about psychedelically induced nausea as It's not just AMT I no longer vommit with coming up on, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-T-7 all used to make me very uncomfortable coming up to the point where I would vommit violently and then settle into the bodyload and enjoy my trip, nowadays it seems that the more times I dose a psychedelic the less nauseous / uncomfortable I feel. Anyone else experience this? I still don't believe im immune to AMT nausea though I still have this sneaking suspicion that the next time I dose im gonna end up hurling.
 

Solipsis

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People who are familiar with handling body load sensations, who can manage bodily feeling sober using meditation or breathing exercising or whatever method tend to have less problems with nausea. Nausea can sometimes be from 5-HT3 receptor agonism in the gut (which is relieved by medication like ondansetron) but by far most nausea is psychosomatic and comes from the tension that arises from having to get used to a new state of consciousness. This tension and relatively sudden enhancement of bodily sensations forms a load which manifests itself as nausea often building to a peak: the 'purge'. Throwing up symbolizes catharsis: release of the built-up tension and leveling out of having to get used to the body- and mind-space. The transition is then complete.

You can imagine that people who have had lots of practice manipulating bodily sensation can handle the transition and immediately let potential tension flow away instead of letting it build up. Methods like meditation, breathing exercises, dancing freely, t'ai chi, yoga and also some martial arts and other sports can work very well to learn to work with your physical energy and I believe that this can allow you to transform a body load into an ecstatic body high.
 

Transform

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Perhaps the poll could be altered to indicate the intensity? I did get some nausea at 30mg but it was really very minimal.

For the record, my batch was not unpleasant smelling .
 

psood0nym

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I've gotten it from the freebase but not the HCl. Thing is, my use of the freebase occurred between 4 and 6 years before I first started using the HCl, and the HCl is all I've used since with the exception of a few doses of aMT acetate used rectally (no nausea). Plus the HCl is done almost exclusively IM, though my one 50 mg oral dose was nausea free. It's impossible to know the factors responsible for the lack of nausea given the separation in time (maybe my physiology changed), and I'm not about to eat a bunch of freebase to find out.

In addition to the poll, I think one way (a dirty and informal but still recommendable way) to go about this is to do a ghetto content analysis of Erowid general reports that are highly rated. General reports are ostensibly about the use of a substance in isolation, and the higher rated reports (star system/order from the top of the vault page [though order is also effected by date of submission I think]) tend to be more descriptive. So you could just take the top 20 (more is better) or so general reports for aMT and a random-ish selection of the top 20 from a bunch of other psyche vaults and do ctrl F searches for nausea and its synonyms in each report (there's a better way to do it with Google Analytics or something no doubt, but this is just to illustrate something anyone could do). Then you just compare the proportion of aMT reports where people mention getting nauseated to the average proportion of all the others (which represent "proportion of nausea reports from X number of different non-aMT psychedelics"). I don't think you'd have to worry about statistical significance for this shizz. Aaa... but I'm not gonna do it (might do it for one psyche vault -- community project!).

I think it's likely aMT reports would show more incidences of nausea just based on my memory of reading lots of different reports. Other substances that stand out in memory: 5-MeO-aMT (many 5-MeOs actually, but it's the worst); mescaline (even pure); 2C-T-7; and, HBWR seeds.

Since many of these psychedelics come on slower than average and are regarded as more gentle or less radical psychedelics at typical doses I'm not sure how well the theory that tension/adapting to new state of consciousness is the cause of nausea works as a primary explanation. I don't doubt tension plays a role and can be sufficient to cause nausea in some cases, I just don't think it's the single largest cause -- insofar as it's sensible to talk of "single" causes in biology/pharma (I think the largest cause is lost somewhere in the mysterious pharmacology and kinetics of these specific problem drugs as it relates to the mysterious causes of nausea). The reason I think this is that from the rising tension perspective wouldn't we think that the more abrupt the onset of a psychedelic is, the less time we have to adjust to the tension, and therefore the more likely it is to cause nausea? This would predict that drugs with faster onsets, as well as ROAs with faster onsets, will have higher direct correlations with nausea than others. I don't think that's generally the case (smoked DMT and salvia not usually causing nausea, the use of rectal admin to avoid nausea despite being a faster route than oral, etc.).
 
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Transform

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Thing is, the freebase would form the HCl salt rapidly in the stomach.

There is a chance that storage as a salt results in less degradation which is what's causing the nausea, but I reckon it's a legitimate pharmacological action of aMT itself.
 

psood0nym

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^Yeah, exactly -- meant to mention that. Yet there still seems to be a lot of people reporting nausea with the freebase and not the other. It makes no sense, ostensibly. I think people are more likely to make posts/reports after their first try as well, when you'd presume most of the freebase is relatively fresh. I also think the majority of tripping tends to happen soon after attaining a new psyche (when it's presumably still fairly fresh). So you'd expect any effect of degradation on nausea to be underrepresented in both reports and experiences if that's the cause of the difference between the forms. It's probably a mixture of a bunch of independent factors: i.e. people taking less aMT because they don't adjust for the molecular weight difference in dosing; people starting with the more commonly available freebase, getting acclimated to the onset, then later finding the HCl once they've gotten more used to aMT etc.
 
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OTGee

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To the person who asked about storage, aMT seems to degrade quite quickly if in capsules even if it is in a cool dark place. To the point of being hardly active if left for long enough. If freebase powder is out in room, it loses all activty after a month or so.
 

Transform

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I would be very surprised if this was the case. I stored mine in a warm, dark cabinet for a month and a test of 7mg showed good activity.
 

psood0nym

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I stored aMT freebase in capsules way back when and they retained potency for over a year (at which point they were all consumed). They melted down from light yellow powder to dark yellow resin-ish stuff at the end of the period, but were still active. I think I used veggi caps. They were definitely bad for it since other freebase kept in bags or vials have lasted years without turning into that dark stuff, but not so bad that it was anywhere near inactive at over a year. It's also possible gelatin caps could be worse than veggi -- no experience with that. If you want to store pre-made doses swing by a rock collector shop and pick up a few hundred little zipper lock bags for like $2.

Also, you just left a pile of pungent chemical powder out in the "open air" for a month (admittedly it would make an interesting conversation piece), or how did you find that out?
 
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Jesusgreen

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Regarding nausea, both times me and my friend took it we experienced rather intense nausea on the come up. Our doses were: 50mg the first time, and 75mg the second time we took it (though it was 3 days after the first so there was tolerance present) - orally. The first time we both threw up, and the second time he threw up but I managed to relax and the nausea quickly passed.

I feel like the nausea on aMT has a lot to do with your mindset at the time of taking the drug - when you have a lot on your mind I feel the nausea is greater. I see any nausea/vomiting as a similar purge to Ayahuasca - leaving you feeling relieved but also mentally clear afterwards.

We had the freebase so that may be a factor.

I did not find the nausea a major issue though - even if I threw up every time it was not a horrible feeling, and it quickly passed, leaving me feeling wonderful for the next 14-15 hours :)
 

IamMe90

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Like JG, I experienced terrible nausea on the come up which ended up in unavoidable vomiting. However, after the purging, I felt completely fine, no traces of nausea, with a wonderful long lasting high. Definitely a keeper.
 

Solipsis

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OK changed the poll again, if you voted the italic option indicating what your vote was may be messed up because I scooched the options. Evened the 'yes' answers out a bit according to expectation and based on some posts above. I don't think it's enough of a big deal to reset the whole thing, hopefully we will get a lot more votes and any unrepresentative skewing will dissolve.
 
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