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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

hylite

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If I drink coffee after 9am in the morning, then I won't sleep. My tolerance to other things is annoyingly high, but caffeine, no, I can't handle that at all if I want to sleep past 3am the following night. I was told the reason is that I don't smoke tobacco any more, that helps clear it out of your system. Certainly I used to drink loads of caffeine all day when I smoked and it wasn't a problem. Just my thoughts because I thought the same as squeaky, insane amounts of caffeine aren't going to allow any natural sleep and it's so important to your health.
I have to STOP. I even got a 12 pck. of diet coke and fresh lemons for a possible zap. 😁😭
 

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Bluelighter
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Think more please ♡. ☺👍🏼
I'm just miserable when I can't have any drugs, like working when I have to concentrate. It's pathetic and I realise that, but at the same time I'm happy enough being physically dependant because it all helps.
I don't actually have a good reason to stop other than I'm breaking a law that I disagree with, so no good reason.
 

Squeaky

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You have to cut back AND cut down on quantity ! You have to. You have to do a little bit BUT only a little bit for the sickness. It helps so much. You can't keep doing so much.
It is NOT HEALTHY ANYMORE.
A little bit can be so much better !! And if not, doing too much is going to make you sick and is dumb. Just use small amounts and less each time BUT only to take away the sickness.
You have to balance this all out and YOU HAVE TO STOP with the taking way to much. STOP NOW. It is not going to help you anymore and ever again !!!
Please try to focus. It's not EVEN as difficult as benzo is. AND this can be done ? It's too easy or then you just choose not to ? 😭
I used to tell myself that. ‘Just enough so I won’t be sick’. And I’m a pretty smart person. Somehow I ALWAYS got down to a very low level and it sounded so nice to have a little extra “this one time”. “I earned it” “It’s the weekend” “If I take a little extra before lunch I can relax”.

There’s a component of opiate use that I have never seen addressed. It hijacks my sense of rationalism. I know I’m screwing myself by using too much. I suffered through wd’s every month for two years. I was so miserable and I swore I wouldn’t do it again, but I didn’t even wait to get home from the pharmacy to take triple my prescribed dose. I made the same exact plan to NOT get into trouble every month, and I failed in the exact same way every time.

“INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER BUT EXPECTING A DIFFERENT OUTCOME.”

Opiates make us insane. At least a drunk can blame it on being drunk. I would be past the withdrawals and stone sober when I would get my script filled. Somehow I made the exact same decision as I had every month for a couple of years and I was convinced that this month would be different. That’s why I didn’t make any progress until I made it somebody else’s responsibility to make those decisions for me. I think the drugs actually rob us of our sanity in a very subtle but undeniable way.
 

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Bluelighter
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I used to tell myself that. ‘Just enough so I won’t be sick’. And I’m a pretty smart person. Somehow I ALWAYS got down to a very low level and it sounded so nice to have a little extra “this one time”. “I earned it” “It’s the weekend” “If I take a little extra before lunch I can relax”.

There’s a component of opiate use that I have never seen addressed. It hijacks my sense of rationalism. I know I’m screwing myself by using too much. I suffered through wd’s every month for two years. I was so miserable and I swore I wouldn’t do it again, but I didn’t even wait to get home from the pharmacy to take triple my prescribed dose. I made the same exact plan to NOT get into trouble every month, and I failed in the exact same way every time.

“INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER BUT EXPECTING A DIFFERENT OUTCOME.”

Opiates make us insane. At least a drunk can blame it on being drunk. I would be past the withdrawals and stone sober when I would get my script filled. Somehow I made the exact same decision as I had every month for a couple of years and I was convinced that this month would be different. That’s why I didn’t make any progress until I made it somebody else’s responsibility to make those decisions for me. I think the drugs actually rob us of our sanity in a very subtle but undeniable way.
I agree, this opiate use is not rational, we do it anyway regardless.
Of course it goes much further, I am aware of both voices. The one that is tired and bullied and reminds me of the insanity involved and the one that tells that gentle voice to sod off while we have some fun. Even though they are more like patterns of thought than actual voices, it still sounds as crazy as it is.
It's the only problem my husband has with it, he says he worries about my mental health. I agree with him that I need to be careful, but physical pain is also bad for mental health. Only opiates help my pains and sometimes the pain's not gone, still it allows me to sleep until it's gone.
 

Squeaky

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I agree, this opiate use is not rational, we do it anyway regardless.
Of course it goes much further, I am aware of both voices. The one that is tired and bullied and reminds me of the insanity involved and the one that tells that gentle voice to sod off while we have some fun. Even though they are more like patterns of thought than actual voices, it still sounds as crazy as it is.
It's the only problem my husband has with it, he says he worries about my mental health. I agree with him that I need to be careful, but physical pain is also bad for mental health. Only opiates help my pains and sometimes the pain's not gone, still it allows me to sleep until it's gone.
I think at some point we are all just wanting our life back. The life before the injury, before the withdrawals. The life when we NEEDED an alarm clock to avoid sleeping until noon and we couldn’t remember the last time we saw a Dr. The pills give us that life back, even if it’s only for a few hours.

I have come to the conclusion that it’s not possible for me to be careful. I’m either on the meds or not. There’s not really any life in between. I enjoy not thinking about them, and I feel great when there’s no fear of running out. Everything in between is just purgatory. My mind tells me that it would be ideal to have as much as I want forever, but it’s insane and it would never happen anyway. Right now I’m just hoping I can get to a place where I can use it when I need and nothing more.
 

Squeaky

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I caught myself thinking stupid this morning. Remembering all of the times I had successfully passed the first two weeks of withdrawals. I had used loperamide or just white-knuckled my way through. Got to where I wasn’t good but also not really bad. To a place where I was on the mend and then..... prescription day! The clock starts over again. As Dundermifflin said ‘Groundhog Day’. Going back because of the pain, staying because of the addiction.
I still haven’t figured out if Kratom has saved me or screwed me. If the DEA manages to make it illegal then I’m completely screwed. But in the mean time I am so completely tethered to my pain management situation that I’m basically living for my next dose.

Some days it’s really hard to stay positive. I get despondent, remembering how it was before I got hurt and realizing it probably won’t ever be that way again. In the middle just trying to hide these problems from everyone. I know I’ll make it but days like this I just want to quit.
 

n3ophy7e

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At least my bowels are moving. I think my record two years ago was 14 days without a ‘movement’.
Yeah I think my record was about that long. I wasn't eating though. Fuck....it took years for my gut to get back to some kind of normality after I stopped abusing opes.
 

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Bluelighter
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Yeah I think my record was about that long. I wasn't eating though. Fuck....it took years for my gut to get back to some kind of normality after I stopped abusing opes.
My guts were never the same after a short affair with H many years ago but I think I picked up some bug as well due to my living conditions back then not being great. Either way it was bad, but only after I stopped, lol. These days I stay clear of overprocessed food as well as overprocessed drugs. I'm fortunate enough to have access to fresh bud and raw opium in moderation (If your moderation is getting wrecked at least once a day, lol).
That's what I tell myself anyway, I tell myself I don't want anything stronger, I love opium it's better imo because it will be longer before I crash and burn.
And I quit Buprenorphine completely just last month. It was one or the other and bupe isn't as nice, it's there if I need it.
 
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Squeaky

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Holy shit, that's long! Were you still eating?
Not holy, just a lot of shit. Ha!
I was eating, but not nearly enough. During my first year on opiates I lost a lot of weight. I’m over 6’ tall and I dropped from about 220lbs to 170lbs with zero exercise. Ironically it sort of worked in my favor because I was able to say “I lost all this weight. I kept it off. I have done everything I can and I still have back pain”. That was before my first surgery.

Later my lawyer sent me to an internist (doctor) to be evaluated for my disability. It was right at the end of a two week stretch without crapping. That doctor poked around my abdomen and he looked terrified for me. My lawsuit got settled for my back injury and I now have lifetime medical for my back, but also for my upper and lower digestive tract.

I went through that every month for two years. I would get my script filled, take way too much for a week or two, and not crap that whole time. Not even once. After I ran out I would be dying on the toilet for about a week, dropping boulders. It always took me about 7-10 days to get back to normal movements. It’s way better now because I’m at least using Kratom for 12 hours at night instead of the Percocet, so I usually drop the Browns at the Super Bowl every morning. Still constipated but it moves usually once per day.

This is one of those really bad side effects of opiate use that NOBODY talks about. People complain way too much in my opinion, sometimes about trivial things, but I was literally tearing myself a new asshole several times every month. My place has only one bathroom and once I plugged the toilet so badly in the middle of the night that I had to unbolt it from the floor at 3am. I tried everything to unplug it but nothing worked so I had to take the toilet into the backyard and clear the blockage by hand.
 

Squeaky

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And I quit Buprenorphine completely just last month. It was one or the other and bupe isn't as nice, it's there if I need it.
I’m scared of bupe. The ultra long lasting opiates have some very long wd’s. I can’t imagine the detox I went through lasting 3 or 4 times as long.
 

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Bluelighter
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I’m scared of bupe. The ultra long lasting opiates have some very long wd’s. I can’t imagine the detox I went through lasting 3 or 4 times as long.
Because I have a transdermal patch it was quite easy, I left my normal strength patch on for two weeks instead of one, then I removed that and applied a half strength patch and left that two weeks, then removed it and I'm fine. Very little wd from bupe done over four weeks like that, but of course I'm always taking something in the opiate family and I'll continue to for my pain so I never actually went without any opiate.
I've a close relative who is a hospital doctor, he told me it is normal to cycle a patient from one opiate to another and back so the drugs keep their efficacy.
 

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Bluelighter
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Did I say giving up bupe was no problem?
Last night I lay awake all night after stupidly vaping a gram of bud early on in the evening so I ran out of sleepy weed before bedtime, but I still had some other weed, wide-awake weed of various types from the back of the drawer.
So as I lay awake thinking I'm going to hate tomorrow unless I get some sleep, all I wanted to do was slap on a high strength bupe patch or two. Or have my morning dose early. Or just grabbing the vodka and finishing that. I lay there considering every one of the meds I have stashed here and there, but I stayed in bed with the lights out listening to snoring, which I find comforting.
I don't know what to do about it, I'd like to do something, but nothing too difficult, so that's back to doing nothing about it.

What I'm taking is a lot more fun than bupe, but this waking up feeling like I've been pummelled in the lower back by an angry gorilla who then climbed down my throat and won't stop churning my guts is getting old again quickly. And that's if I even get to sleep.
 

Pumpkin2021

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Did I say giving up bupe was no problem?
Last night I lay awake all night after stupidly vaping a gram of bud early on in the evening so I ran out of sleepy weed before bedtime, but I still had some other weed, wide-awake weed of various types from the back of the drawer.
So as I lay awake thinking I'm going to hate tomorrow unless I get some sleep, all I wanted to do was slap on a high strength bupe patch or two. Or have my morning dose early. Or just grabbing the vodka and finishing that. I lay there considering every one of the meds I have stashed here and there, but I stayed in bed with the lights out listening to snoring, which I find comforting.
I don't know what to do about it, I'd like to do something, but nothing too difficult, so that's back to doing nothing about it.

What I'm taking is a lot more fun than bupe, but this waking up feeling like I've been pummelled in the lower back by an angry gorilla who then climbed down my throat and won't stop churning my guts is getting old again quickly. And that's if I even get to sleep.
What are you taking that gives you that angry gorilla feeling ?

Ar you on the bupe for recovery reasons or pain? Or both? Are you trying to get off of the bupe?

You might have answered that already but was just trying to get an idea of what you are struggling with.
 

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Bluelighter
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What are you taking that gives you that angry gorilla feeling ?

Ar you on the bupe for recovery reasons or pain? Or both? Are you trying to get off of the bupe?

You might have answered that already but was just trying to get an idea of what you are struggling with.
I dunno why, but I'm embarrassed that I'm addicted to opium, it's like one twentieth the strength of black tar. If I could get that again it'd be game over and I'd sink forever. So I feel I ought to not have a problem with just plain old opium. Silly.

I used to have a reason to stay clean, I was raising kids, now my terror of having them taken away is gone, they're all fantastically cool and ambitious adults now and I'm proud of the part I had in that as their mum. I stayed clean 24 years, but now I'm bored.

I need something for pain, I like opium and that is what I eat every morning and sometimes vape a bit, sometimes have some later, sometimes let it sit in my mouth and dissolve (that's even better than vaping imo), sometimes make a hot drink with it. It's very versatile, lol. I worry about pesticides a bit, but if it looks dirty I dissolve and strain it through about 40 micron mesh, the good stuff is all soluble. It's worth dissolving at least the top layer and filtering. I don't know how soluble the pesticides are.
I've been weighing it to keep track of how much I need/use

Then there's the bupe. My own doctor won't give me opiates, no doctor who's ever met me will give me opiates but I try not to take it personally.

During lockdown, I was in pain and running out of opium. I couldn't see a doctor but one spoke on the phone to me, I asked for bupe and codeine for pain and got it.
My plan was to quit opium and just use bupe eventually and no other meds.
It didn't go that way because the world opened up, I replenished my supplies and here we are again.

In other words I can't manage to pin down what I want at all, it's different every day and will be until I do something about it. I'm eating gabapentin like M&Ms too.

In order to stop myself I'd need to clear everything out of the house, lock away my phone and white knuckle it.

However, a bit like Squeaky and Hylite, I need genuine pain relief for a genuine medical condition (I pretend everything's due to that condition or menopause, covers most side effects). So there isn't any point in that.

I'd like to be more in control of it I guess. I worry.
I'd like to be sober for 24 hours to remember what it's like.
 

Pumpkin2021

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I dunno why, but I'm embarrassed that I'm addicted to opium, it's like one twentieth the strength of black tar. If I could get that again it'd be game over and I'd sink forever. So I feel I ought to not have a problem with just plain old opium. Silly.

I used to have a reason to stay clean, I was raising kids, now my terror of having them taken away is gone, they're all fantastically cool and ambitious adults now and I'm proud of the part I had in that as their mum. I stayed clean 24 years, but now I'm bored.

I need something for pain, I like opium and that is what I eat every morning and sometimes vape a bit, sometimes have some later, sometimes let it sit in my mouth and dissolve (that's even better than vaping imo), sometimes make a hot drink with it. It's very versatile, lol. I worry about pesticides a bit, but if it looks dirty I dissolve and strain it through about 40 micron mesh, the good stuff is all soluble. It's worth dissolving at least the top layer and filtering. I don't know how soluble the pesticides are.
I've been weighing it to keep track of how much I need/use

Then there's the bupe. My own doctor won't give me opiates, no doctor who's ever met me will give me opiates but I try not to take it personally.

During lockdown, I was in pain and running out of opium. I couldn't see a doctor but one spoke on the phone to me, I asked for bupe and codeine for pain and got it.
My plan was to quit opium and just use bupe eventually and no other meds.
It didn't go that way because the world opened up, I replenished my supplies and here we are again.

In other words I can't manage to pin down what I want at all, it's different every day and will be until I do something about it. I'm eating gabapentin like M&Ms too.

In order to stop myself I'd need to clear everything out of the house, lock away my phone and white knuckle it.

However, a bit like Squeaky and Hylite, I need genuine pain relief for a genuine medical condition (I pretend everything's due to that condition or menopause, covers most side effects). So there isn't any point in that.

I'd like to be more in control of it I guess. I worry.
I'd like to be sober for 24 hours to remember what it's like.
Thanks for your post. It puts things in perspective. Never knew anyone that did opium so I can't relate. I'm assuming since it's pretty obscure that you source it on the internet. So in other words, if you have money you can replenish your product. I only know opium from the dens that are depicted in movies. Like "From Hell" with Johnny Depp. Is it the latex off of poppy plants?

Sounds like you are just trying to feel better like the rest of us. I know you wish the bube could hold you and you could just use the codeine for pain. I was a lot like you. Ate opies for 30 years self medicating anxiety and depression until I realized that the opies were causing it and not fixing it. Addiction is such a personal affliction. We all use for different reasons and quit for different reasons.

Stay safe and maybe someday soon you can learn to dislike it more than you like it. Is the angry gorilla thing WD? From the opium?
 

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Bluelighter
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Thanks for your post. It puts things in perspective. Never knew anyone that did opium so I can't relate. I'm assuming since it's pretty obscure that you source it on the internet. So in other words, if you have money you can replenish your product. I only know opium from the dens that are depicted in movies. Like "From Hell" with Johnny Depp. Is it the latex off of poppy plants?

Sounds like you are just trying to feel better like the rest of us. I know you wish the bube could hold you and you could just use the codeine for pain. I was a lot like you. Ate opies for 30 years self medicating anxiety and depression until I realized that the opies were causing it and not fixing it. Addiction is such a personal affliction. We all use for different reasons and quit for different reasons.

Stay safe and maybe someday soon you can learn to dislike it more than you like it. Is the angry gorilla thing WD? From the opium?
Yeah, the angry gorilla is opium wd, I get it most mornings, then a piece dissolving in my mouth travels from there throughout my body, gently tingling away the pain and it's gone. Couldn't be coincidence, lol.
 

Squeaky

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Yeah, the angry gorilla is opium wd, I get it most mornings, then a piece dissolving in my mouth travels from there throughout my body, gently tingling away the pain and it's gone. Couldn't be coincidence, lol.
My experience is this:
Oxy is for pain, but it does a bunch of other crap too. Makes me happy, confident, reduces my appetite, makes my whole body feel great, constipated, great sleep, time flys, etc. SO when I stop talking it I expect my pain to return but I also get anxiety, diarrhea, insomnia, sweating, and time moves so fucking slow. It sucks but the withdrawals are basically the opposite of all of the great stuff that the pills provide.

The same goes for nicotine, alcohol, caffeine, cheese, french fries, etc...etc. And the thing that totally screws with me is that I can’t really fathom how long I have been under the influence of all of those chemicals so the wd’s last about 10x longer than my mind can understand. In between I still have a life: work, family, pets, house..... I can’t be in wd without losing so much that I always give up. The idea that a day or a week of abstinence can reset all of those effects is ludicrous, but I still get surprised every time.

I remember being in my early 20’s. Working out every day, eating healthy, drinking mostly water, almost no alcohol, zero nicotine, and only seeing a Dr about once every 2 or 3 years. My worst experience was a hangover occasionally. I didn’t even know what ‘normal’ meant but I guess that was it. Now the idea of getting back to ‘normal’ sounds like heaven and my brain tells me to quit all of it and get my life back, BUT it will take months or years to unscrew the mess I’m in and I always give up. I know that if I just announced to my wife, kids, and boss that I need a month to lay in bed and get straight..... there’s no way I would still have a life when it’s over. Lose my job, home, etc.

So I just give up. light a cigarette. Pour a cocktail. Have some pills. Get stoned. Try to do better tomorrow and prey that someday I’ll be strong enough to stop hurting myself with all of these chemicals. That day is so far out in the future that I get depressed and I want anything to make it not feel so hopeless. And in the middle of it all my back really hurts unless I’m ingesting all of that crap every day.

I post my experiences on BL and try not lose everything I care about. At least I quit cigarettes and switched to vaping.
 
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