Mental Health Try an antidepressant, go back to benzos or try to power through

[SamPca]

Hello, I am 28M and I had been taking benzos (various and at various doses, highest was 3mg / day clonazepam, latest before taper 13mg/day diazepam) and mirtazapine (15 mg) for Insomnia and Anxiety for the past 8 years, wanting and trying to quit for most of this time but never managing to. This march I finally made it after a 2 month taper. To achieve this I quit my job in November to have some time to lay low.

After finishing the taper things never fully went back to normal, anxiety was high and my obsessive personality was worse than ever, but on the upside it looked like insomnia was manageable. After deciding things wouldn't get better on their own I decided to look for a job despite still not feeling 100%. It was somewhat hard to get back to doing something with my life but I managed to get some interviews and wile difficult things were looking up.

Then out of nowhere the insomnia came back with a vengeance, it was weird because I usually have trouble falling asleep but this time I usually had no trouble with that bt I always waked too early and couldn't get back to sleep, on the worst days I went to sleep at around 1.30-2 am and woke up at 4.30 am. Idon't know if this was caused by anxiety, didn't look like it but at this time I had a lot of job interviews lined up so soon I started fearing not being able to perform in the interviews due to the insomnia, so that caused even more insomnia.

Fast forward and now i'm taking both mirtazapine and trazodone to sleep (15 mg and 25 respectively), things have settled down a bit and I managed to land a job. Should be happy about that but really I felt like I botched the search due to the insomnia / anxiety problems and accepted something I wasn't really interested in in the first place.

However, I'm realizing things are far from fine. It feels like i always have something bothering me, something that keeps me preoccupied while missing out on Important things. I waste tons of time doing pointless stuff because pretty much everything makes me anxious. I feel like a spectator in my own life, commanded only by anxiety and fear. I feel weak, everything feels scary and I don't want to live like this anymore. My morale is to the ground and I'm starting to feel depressed too.

At first I thought things would start to get better after some time passed after quitting benzos (some people say that it could be years until you're completely back to normal) but 4 months passed and i'm starting to believe that this is just what I'm like without anxiety medications.

If I think back to the past every time I achieved something in life and I felt worth something I was taking benzos and my anxiety was in check, maybe I simply thought I was different but the only thing keeping this in check before were the benzos

Maybe ssri could be worth a try? Especially since my obsessions are a big cause of anxiety and I hear ssri are the best at taking care of that.

Sorry for the long post, i guess I just wanted to ask if you think it's possible that the withdrawal is still affecting me and what you would think is the best choice for me (restart benzos, try a ssri / snri, wait it out). I think that anyway i'll try to start the new job without benzos /ssri as my current unemployed status and living with my parents could be one of the root causes of my current state, but I'm almost out of willpower and I can't stand living like this anymore. I really need some change in my life.

One last question, how hard are ssri to quit compared to benzos? Just in case I decide to go that way and I find that they are not right for me after a while.

Thanks in advance to everybody reading this!

 

[SamPca]

I guess the post might be a bit too long, the short of it is: Do you think benzo withdrawal could still be affecting me in a major way after 4 months clean? Or maybe It's just the way I am and should give up and stay medicated? Do you think a SSRI could be the right thing for someone in my situation (Anxiety, Insomnia, obsessions, intrusive thoughts and lately some depression)? How hard are ssri to quit compared to benzos? (Just to have an idea in case I go that way).

Thanks a lot

 

[PharmaTrain]

Hello, I am 28M and I had been taking benzos (various and at various doses, highest was 3mg / day clonazepam, latest before taper 13mg/day diazepam) and mirtazapine (15 mg) for Insomnia and Anxiety for the past 8 years, wanting and trying to quit for most of this time but never managing to. This march I finally made it after a 2 month taper. To achieve this I quit my job in November to have some time to lay low.

After finishing the taper things never fully went back to normal, anxiety was high and my obsessive personality was worse than ever, but on the upside it looked like insomnia was manageable. After deciding things wouldn't get better on their own I decided to look for a job despite still not feeling 100%. It was somewhat hard to get back to doing something with my life but I managed to get some interviews and wile difficult things were looking up.

Then out of nowhere the insomnia came back with a vengeance, it was weird because I usually have trouble falling asleep but this time I usually had no trouble with that bt I always waked too early and couldn't get back to sleep, on the worst days I went to sleep at around 1.30-2 am and woke up at 4.30 am. Idon't know if this was caused by anxiety, didn't look like it but at this time I had a lot of job interviews lined up so soon I started fearing not being able to perform in the interviews due to the insomnia, so that caused even more insomnia.

Fast forward and now i'm taking both mirtazapine and trittico to sleep (15 mg and 25 respectively), things have settled down a bit and I managed to land a job. Should be happy about that but really I felt like I botched the search due to the insomnia / anxiety problems and accepted something I wasn't really interested in in the first place.

However, I'm realizing things are far from fine. It feels like i always have something bothering me, something that keeps me preoccupied while missing out on Important things. I waste tons of time doing pointless stuff because pretty much everything makes me anxious. I feel like a spectator in my own life, commanded only by anxiety and fear. I feel weak, everything feels scary and I don't want to live like this anymore. My morale is to the ground and I'm starting to feel depressed too.

At first I thought things would start to get better after some time passed after quitting benzos (some people say that it could be years until you're completely back to normal) but 4 months passed and i'm starting to believe that this is just what I'm like without anxiety medications.

If I think back to the past every time I achieved something in life and I felt worth something I was taking benzos and my anxiety was in check, maybe I simply thought I was different but the only thing keeping this in check before were the benzos

Maybe ssri could be worth a try? Especially since my obsessions are a big cause of anxiety and I hear ssri are the best at taking care of that.

Sorry for the long post, i guess I just wanted to ask if you think it's possible that the withdrawal is still affecting me and what you would think is the best choice for me (restart benzos, try a ssri / snri, wait it out). I think that anyway i'll try to start the new job without benzos /ssri as my current unemployed status and living with my parents could be one of the root causes of my current state, but I'm almost out of willpower and I can't stand living like this anymore. I really need some change in my life.

One last question, how hard are ssri to quit compared to benzos? Just in case I decide to go that way and I find that they are not right for me after a while.

Thanks in advance to everybody reading this!

I feel what your going through. I'm in a similar situation on 4 mg. of benzos a day and subs. I hate the ball and chain. Honestly I can't say to go back on the benzos but I wouldn't get on any ssri's. I was on 2, years ago and they are worse than benzos in my opinion. I've seen a friend detoxing from an ssri booster and she crashed her car and went to the pyhc ward for a week till they stabilized her on the booster.
When I had success in detoxing in the past, my setting was a low stress environment from people and frequencies. I know this sounds strange but the wifi or EMF creates stress in many ways among other things. I used a finished basement to detox where EMF is grounded. Than it's just occupying your time and not letting your mind play tricks on you. The thought will come and go.
Stick in there.

 

[Conky]

I guess the post might be a bit too long, the short of it is: Do you think benzo withdrawal could still be affecting me in a major way after 4 months clean? Or maybe It's just the way I am and should give up and stay medicated? Do you think a SSRI could be the right thing for someone in my situation (Anxiety, Insomnia, obsessions, intrusive thoughts and lately some depression)? How hard are ssri to quit compared to benzos? (Just to have an idea in case I go that way).

Thanks a lot

Benzos for sure can cause months of problems after getting clean

I think you should try an SSRI

They are sustainable unlike benzos even though they can be difficult to quit

Another thing you should try is kava

It will be very good for your anxiety, intrusive thoughts, etc

 

[Jen X]

Did you try increasing the mirtazipine? 15mg didn't work for me but 30mg has been a lifesaver. I used to hate taking something bit i rather a pill and have a less stress filled life.

 

[SamPca]

I feel what your going through. I'm in a similar situation on 4 mg. of benzos a day and subs. I hate the ball and chain. Honestly I can't say to go back on the benzos but I wouldn't get on any ssri's. I was on 2, years ago and they are worse than benzos in my opinion. I've seen a friend detoxing from an ssri booster and she crashed her car and went to the pyhc ward for a week till they stabilized her on the booster.
When I had success in detoxing in the past, my setting was a low stress environment from people and frequencies. I know this sounds strange but the wifi or EMF creates stress in many ways among other things. I used a finished basement to detox where EMF is grounded. Than it's just occupying your time and not letting your mind play tricks on you. The thought will come and go.
Stick in there.

Yeah, for sure going on benzos again would be a sort of defeat for me, but right now it's looking more and more like the better option compared to keep living like this. SSRI also scare me, heard a lot of horror stories and a lot of very positive things about them, they might be just what I need or another chain to tie me up, scary stuff. As far as a low stress environment goes I tried to create that by quitting my job and on the short term it did work, but right now I feel that being unemployed hurt me more than it benefited me. Probably wouldn't have made it through the worst days of withdrawal while having to perform at a job though.
As far as EMF goes I never noticed anything about that but i'll try to pay some attention to it, after all the smallest things could be affecting us in this state, one thing I noticed is I have a lot lower tolerance for physical exercise than before and I think some of my insomnia is due to cortisol response to exercise. Weird, but possible.

Benzos for sure can cause months of problems after getting clean

I think you should try an SSRI

They are sustainable unlike benzos even though they can be difficult to quit

Another thing you should try is kava

It will be very good for your anxiety, intrusive thoughts, etc

Yeah I heard that especially in Benzo support groups but tried to not pay too much attention to it as it would have demotivated me from quitting. It seems weird that it could affect you so much even after so much time and all the mental health professionals I saw seem adamant that it's not possible, but I know the opinion on them in general is mixed at best. Also after a while that things don't seem to get better you kinda start questioning that you'll ever get better and start thinking that you've always been like this without benzos.
Thinking about how I'm feeling right now i remember I felt like this in the past, for sure when I tried quitting other times and lowered my dose, but I think also before starting benzos. So much time has passed and my memory about that isn't so good anymore (thanks benzos), but for sure even before benzos i was a very anxious person

Did you try increasing the mirtazipine? 15mg didn't work for me but 30mg has been a lifesaver. I used to hate taking something bit i rather a pill and have a less stress filled life.

I never tried taking more than 15 mg of mirtazapine, maybe that could be a good solution. For sure I have to discontinue the Trazodone, I hate it and it's too similar to mirtazapine anyway, probably it's just better to take more mirtazapine as they both act on the same receptors (histamine for sedative effect).
Only thing that stopped me from taking more mirtazapine is that I saw a study saying that the highest sedative effect of mirtazapine is at around 15 mg, while higher doses are more activating. Normally that wouldn't be so bad, but with my insomnia i'm worrying about that.

 

[Eligiu]

I wouldn't recommend going back on benzos, you've done all the hard work getting off them so it would be a real pity to undo all that now.

Maybe have a look into which SSRIs could work for you, their side effect profile, what they're most effective for. Unfortunately I don't have much experience with psychiatric medications aside from mood stabilisers and antipsychotic medication so I'm not well versed in which SSRIs are best for anxiety.

I'm sure your GP would be able to provide that information.

 

[cdin]

I guess the post might be a bit too long, the short of it is: Do you think benzo withdrawal could still be affecting me in a major way after 4 months clean? Or maybe It's just the way I am and should give up and stay medicated? Do you think a SSRI could be the right thing for someone in my situation (Anxiety, Insomnia, obsessions, intrusive thoughts and lately some depression)? How hard are ssri to quit compared to benzos? (Just to have an idea in case I go that way).

Thanks a lot

I didn’t feel through acute wd for 9 months. 2.5 years out id say things are finally 90% better hopefully another 2 years I’ll get that ten percent back. For the love of god don’t go back to benzos. Ime anxiety responds really well to actual talk therapy techniques, exercise, meditation, diet. Handle that stuff and give it more time. The healing takes and exceptionally long time.

 

[SamPca]

I wouldn't recommend going back on benzos, you've done all the hard work getting off them so it would be a real pity to undo all that now.

Maybe have a look into which SSRIs could work for you, their side effect profile, what they're most effective for. Unfortunately I don't have much experience with psychiatric medications aside from mood stabilisers and antipsychotic medication so I'm not well versed in which SSRIs are best for anxiety.

I'm sure your GP would be able to provide that information.

I'd like to avoid going back if possible, however I'm not sure that starting an ssri would be the lesser of the two evils in comparison, heard a lot of scary stuff about them. Staying clean sound like the safest option but it's becoming unbearable lately.

I didn’t feel through acute wd for 9 months. 2.5 years out id say things are finally 90% better hopefully another 2 years I’ll get that ten percent back. For the love of god don’t go back to benzos. Ime anxiety responds really well to actual talk therapy techniques, exercise, meditation, diet. Handle that stuff and give it more time. The healing takes and exceptionally long time.

Heard a lot of similar stories, out of curiosity could you tell me what kind of doses you were taking and for how long? So I can compare my use and see if I'm in a similar boat.

It's weird because at the beginning I was making progress and things were bearable but now everything seems to be falling apart, maybe my symptoms were similar but back then I was more motivated and had a more positive outlook (just need to bear this a bit more and it will be gone) and I simply wasn't ready for something so long...

The other thing I have been thinking about is if withdrawal is so long then it might not be a bad idea to just hop back on and stick with it at lower tolerable doses until i die. I have already lost the best years of my life trying to fight benzos, why not stick with them in a disciplined manner and live a decent life? Most of my previous 28 years have been wasted, I cannot afford to lose more. If it means getting dementia later in life that's an ok price for me, wish i'd never started but hopping back is starting to look like the better option here. I'm still taking some time to find alternative solutions, but if by the year's end things haven't worked out I still have this option.

 

[cdin]

I'd like to avoid going back if possible, however I'm not sure that starting an ssri would be the lesser of the two evils in comparison, heard a lot of scary stuff about them. Staying clean sound like the safest option but it's becoming unbearable lately.



Heard a lot of similar stories, out of curiosity could you tell me what kind of doses you were taking and for how long? So I can compare my use and see if I'm in a similar boat.

It's weird because at the beginning I was making progress and things were bearable but now everything seems to be falling apart, maybe my symptoms were similar but back then I was more motivated and had a more positive outlook (just need to bear this a bit more and it will be gone) and I simply wasn't ready for something so long...

The other thing I have been thinking about is if withdrawal is so long then it might not be a bad idea to just hop back on and stick with it at lower tolerable doses until i die. I have already lost the best years of my life trying to fight benzos, why not stick with them in a disciplined manner and live a decent life? Most of my previous 28 years have been wasted, I cannot afford to lose more. If it means getting dementia later in life that's an ok price for me, wish i'd never started but hopping back is starting to look like the better option here. I'm still taking some time to find alternative solutions, but if by the year's end things haven't worked out I still have this option.

ok one. at 28, your best years are just starting if you take care of your health/mental health. That's the wd talking/luring you back. people live to 70+ and IMO you don't really get the swing of life til mid 30s, 20's is puttering around like an idiot thinking you have some things figured out. if you're really dealing with benzo wd symptoms mostly, SSRIs will not fix that. time off of / away from booze, benzos etc. will help that.

You don't want to go back on "for life" because the notion that you can stay on a low dose for these problems is a fallacy. THey actively damage gaba receptors. you will get increasing interdose withdrawal and require dose increase, or get used to being in benzo wd while taking em. It's not a sustainable treatment path for anxiety. period. (it's a sad reality, i wish it weren't so as well, but thems the breaks)

PLUS if you DO start showing dementia signs later in life (which you will if on a lifetime benzo rx) they will pull them from you. it's happening to my mom rn, and I've seen multiple other 65+ year olds in same boat. if you think quitting now sucks, 30 years later when your body is that addicted to them is literally one of the most cruel and unusual medical things i have witnessed.

I abused benzos, ethanol and dissociatives in a round robin sort of fashion for a decade, at the end i was on about 15mg diazepam + ethanol +mountains of ket for months trying to "deal" with the pandemic (lol). that withdrawal almost ended me. holy eff. upregulated glutamate receptors and downregulated gaba -- every drop of 1mg of diazepam was like i quit a fifth of vodka. was fucking terrible. had to taper too fast in time and amount, because i had no Rx. whole taper was about 4 mos then 9 mos of utter hell, plus another couple years slowly gliding back to normal.

imo body/brain chemistry can be so different person to person there is limited value in trying to compare, but all the same i understand wanting to know about others experience.

 

[SamPca]

ok one. at 28, your best years are just starting if you take care of your health/mental health. That's the wd talking/luring you back. people live to 70+ and IMO you don't really get the swing of life til mid 30s, 20's is puttering around like an idiot thinking you have some things figured out. if you're really dealing with benzo wd symptoms mostly, SSRIs will not fix that. time off of / away from booze, benzos etc. will help that.

You don't want to go back on "for life" because the notion that you can stay on a low dose for these problems is a fallacy. THey actively damage gaba receptors. you will get increasing interdose withdrawal and require dose increase, or get used to being in benzo wd while taking em. It's not a sustainable treatment path for anxiety. period. (it's a sad reality, i wish it weren't so as well, but thems the breaks)

PLUS if you DO start showing dementia signs later in life (which you will if on a lifetime benzo rx) they will pull them from you. it's happening to my mom rn, and I've seen multiple other 65+ year olds in same boat. if you think quitting now sucks, 30 years later when your body is that addicted to them is literally one of the most cruel and unusual medical things i have witnessed.

I abused benzos, ethanol and dissociatives in a round robin sort of fashion for a decade, at the end i was on about 15mg diazepam + ethanol +mountains of ket for months trying to "deal" with the pandemic (lol). that withdrawal almost ended me. holy eff. upregulated glutamate receptors and downregulated gaba -- every drop of 1mg of diazepam was like i quit a fifth of vodka. was fucking terrible. had to taper too fast in time and amount, because i had no Rx. whole taper was about 4 mos then 9 mos of utter hell, plus another couple years slowly gliding back to normal.

imo body/brain chemistry can be so different person to person there is limited value in trying to compare, but all the same i understand wanting to know about others experience.

Thanks for the response! I know things are not as bleak as I make them out to be, Its just that I feel I've wasted too much time already and not just de to the benzos, I'm afraid that even with all the effects from the benzo withdrawal gone I will always be too anxious to live my life fully and simply enjoy it.

I know all the effects of long term use at therapeutic doses, and how hard it is to keep the doses low, sadly that's where I come from and while not ideal it does sound better than living this kind of life. However, I'd like to find an alternative solution before jumping back, so I'll take some time for that.

The thing is i'm not really sure i'm dealing with benzo wd only right now, lately it seems like I've become a bit depressed about my situation and that probably is affecting me more than the "raw" benzo withdrawal. I have very low motivation, eat a lot, have bad brain fog and headaches often, plus very bad performance in sports. Actually I found out that heavy exercise may be a cause of my insomnia, so I have been avoiding that too (It was great for my mood )

I'm very sorry about your experience and I'm happy to know you feel better now! It took some time but it seems you made a lot of progress!
Yes, I think the same about experience while withdrawing and with drugs in general, different people will have different experiences, however other people's experiences can give you a good idea of the general process.


On another note I have decided to discontinue the trazodone, been taking it for about 1 and a half months in addition to the mirtazapine, I think some of the lack of energy and increased eating might be due to that. Plus I was also taking CBD with it, but I heard it reduces the enzymes that metabolize a lot of drugs (including trazodone and mirtazapine), leading to increased blood levels and longer effective half lifes, so I also stopped that. Let's see how it goes, didn't have much problem sleeping tonight except for fragmented sleep.

 

[Conky]

ok one. at 28, your best years are just starting if you take care of your health/mental health. That's the wd talking/luring you back. people live to 70+ and IMO you don't really get the swing of life til mid 30s, 20's is puttering around like an idiot thinking you have some things figured out. if you're really dealing with benzo wd symptoms mostly, SSRIs will not fix that. time off of / away from booze, benzos etc. will help that.

You don't want to go back on "for life" because the notion that you can stay on a low dose for these problems is a fallacy. THey actively damage gaba receptors. you will get increasing interdose withdrawal and require dose increase, or get used to being in benzo wd while taking em. It's not a sustainable treatment path for anxiety. period. (it's a sad reality, i wish it weren't so as well, but thems the breaks)

PLUS if you DO start showing dementia signs later in life (which you will if on a lifetime benzo rx) they will pull them from you. it's happening to my mom rn, and I've seen multiple other 65+ year olds in same boat. if you think quitting now sucks, 30 years later when your body is that addicted to them is literally one of the most cruel and unusual medical things i have witnessed.

I abused benzos, ethanol and dissociatives in a round robin sort of fashion for a decade, at the end i was on about 15mg diazepam + ethanol +mountains of ket for months trying to "deal" with the pandemic (lol). that withdrawal almost ended me. holy eff. upregulated glutamate receptors and downregulated gaba -- every drop of 1mg of diazepam was like i quit a fifth of vodka. was fucking terrible. had to taper too fast in time and amount, because i had no Rx. whole taper was about 4 mos then 9 mos of utter hell, plus another couple years slowly gliding back to normal.

imo body/brain chemistry can be so different person to person there is limited value in trying to compare, but all the same i understand wanting to know about others experience.

You must be pretty sensitive to get withdrawals like that from only 15mg Diazepam

I was on 6-8mg flualp daily and that gave me severe withdrawal

In the end, months later, I dropped from 20mg Valium to zero and was mostly fine

Some tremors and insomnia but it wasn't too bad since was drinking lots of whisky!

 

[cdin]

You must be pretty sensitive to get withdrawals like that from only 15mg Diazepam

I was on 6-8mg flualp daily and that gave me severe withdrawal

In the end, months later, I dropped from 20mg Valium to zero and was mostly fine

Some tremors and insomnia but it wasn't too bad since was drinking lots of whisky!

the problem was that, on and off binges for decades, decades of ket abuse, and i was coming off ethanol at the same time. it all happened in a confluence due to health issues from said habits. The upregulated glutamate with simultaneous downregulated GABA really made things desparate and awful.

 

[cdin]

Thanks for the response! I know things are not as bleak as I make them out to be, Its just that I feel I've wasted too much time already and not just de to the benzos, I'm afraid that even with all the effects from the benzo withdrawal gone I will always be too anxious to live my life fully and simply enjoy it.

I know all the effects of long term use at therapeutic doses, and how hard it is to keep the doses low, sadly that's where I come from and while not ideal it does sound better than living this kind of life. However, I'd like to find an alternative solution before jumping back, so I'll take some time for that.

The thing is i'm not really sure i'm dealing with benzo wd only right now, lately it seems like I've become a bit depressed about my situation and that probably is affecting me more than the "raw" benzo withdrawal. I have very low motivation, eat a lot, have bad brain fog and headaches often, plus very bad performance in sports. Actually I found out that heavy exercise may be a cause of my insomnia, so I have been avoiding that too (It was great for my mood )

I'm very sorry about your experience and I'm happy to know you feel better now! It took some time but it seems you made a lot of progress!
Yes, I think the same about experience while withdrawing and with drugs in general, different people will have different experiences, however other people's experiences can give you a good idea of the general process.


On another note I have decided to discontinue the trazodone, been taking it for about 1 and a half months in addition to the mirtazapine, I think some of the lack of energy and increased eating might be due to that. Plus I was also taking CBD with it, but I heard it reduces the enzymes that metabolize a lot of drugs (including trazodone and mirtazapine), leading to increased blood levels and longer effective half lifes, so I also stopped that. Let's see how it goes, didn't have much problem sleeping tonight except for fragmented sleep.

i would definitely get off all the psych meds, resume moderate exercise (wtf, i have NEVER heard exercise not recommended for anxious people with trouble sleeping. it's been one of the only saviours of me in this whole process) and give myself time. Pursue therapy, CBT, EMDR, other modes of treating anxiety. until you have given all that the good ol college try, i really can't see a good reason to go back to bzds. That stuff takes time and effort, but so does existing through interdose wds and being pulled off at 65. id much rather do the former than the latter. (and did do all that stuff. zen meditation and kung fu also help me tremendously)

 

[SamPca]

i would definitely get off all the psych meds, resume moderate exercise (wtf, i have NEVER heard exercise not recommended for anxious people with trouble sleeping. it's been one of the only saviours of me in this whole process) and give myself time. Pursue therapy, CBT, EMDR, other modes of treating anxiety. until you have given all that the good ol college try, i really can't see a good reason to go back to bzds. That stuff takes time and effort, but so does existing through interdose wds and being pulled off at 65. id much rather do the former than the latter. (and did do all that stuff. zen meditation and kung fu also help me tremendously)

I definitely feel better after 2 days without trazodone, I hated taking it but was too afraid of not sleeping to stop it, in the end I managed to sleep better these two days than when taking it, so it seems to be a net gain for now (unless I start to get withdrawal symptoms later, but I haven't really been taking it for too long). I don't get knocked out as much when going to sleep and some of the anxiety about falling asleep has returned, but it seems I maintain it better.

Not really in a hurry of quitting mirtazapine right now, as it might be protecting me from trazodone withdrawal + I have been taking it for years and right now I don't feel ready to face withdrawal. It probably will be nothing compared to benzos, but I'll wait a bit until my life is a bit better sorted out.

As for exercise yesterday I did an easy bicycle ride, it was great. I fear I had been exercising too much and too heavily (heavy gym workouts 5/6 days a week, run 3 days a week, occasional cycling). At first I felt very good and almost invincible, even even sleeping an average of 5 hours on such a heavy schedule, but soon I started lacking motivation and as soon as I slowed down a bit I felt an incredible wave of tiredness and my performance declined a lot (as well as mood effect from exercise). I think I might have been overtraining and my cortisol was too high, leading me to wake up early and continuing the cycle of insomnia and tiredness.

Anyway I learned my lesson and I rested a bit, now I plan to gradually restart moderate exercise and I also feel pretty good without the trazodone / CBD combo, let's hope for the best!

 

[SamPca]

Even though I feel better now I've been thinking about possibly taking an ssri, for now I think I'll stick with trying with Mirtazapine only for a while and seeing how it goes but I had a few question in case I decide to go that way in the future:

In your experience, how long does it take before becoming dependent on one? Is it much longer after it starts to take effect?

How bad is the withdrawal compared to benzos?

Did anybody here switch from benzos to ssri / snri successfully?

Thanks

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Benzos are kind of notorious for creating dependence. I'd guess several months though in practice before one gets dependent though. Years and its a totally new ballgame. It's kind of like tobacco addiction where you don't notice yourself learning to need it.

SSRI withdrawal is not known to produce such a "discontinuation syndrome", and they are better for long-term anxiety, to be honest, as opposed to benzos.

I dropped klonopin after some time due to feeling blunted and a bit depressed. Then I tried Zoloft, which worked pretty well.

 

[n3ophy7e]

In my experience and opinion SSRI/SNRIs are better for treating chronic/general anxiety. Benzos are suitable for acute episodes such as panic attacks and should not be used long term.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

I definitely feel better after 2 days without trazodone, I hated taking it but was too afraid of not sleeping to stop it, in the end I managed to sleep better these two days than when taking it, so it seems to be a net gain for now (unless I start to get withdrawal symptoms later, but I haven't really been taking it for too long). I don't get knocked out as much when going to sleep and some of the anxiety about falling asleep has returned, but it seems I maintain it better.

Not really in a hurry of quitting mirtazapine right now, as it might be protecting me from trazodone withdrawal + I have been taking it for years and right now I don't feel ready to face withdrawal. It probably will be nothing compared to benzos, but I'll wait a bit until my life is a bit better sorted out.

As for exercise yesterday I did an easy bicycle ride, it was great. I fear I had been exercising too much and too heavily (heavy gym workouts 5/6 days a week, run 3 days a week, occasional cycling). At first I felt very good and almost invincible, even even sleeping an average of 5 hours on such a heavy schedule, but soon I started lacking motivation and as soon as I slowed down a bit I felt an incredible wave of tiredness and my performance declined a lot (as well as mood effect from exercise). I think I might have been overtraining and my cortisol was too high, leading me to wake up early and continuing the cycle of insomnia and tiredness.

Anyway I learned my lesson and I rested a bit, now I plan to gradually restart moderate exercise and I also feel pretty good without the trazodone / CBD combo, let's hope for the best!

IME heavy gym workouts 5/6 days a week is too much. Muscle recovery is just as important as muscle building. When I was a D1 athlete, during offseason we hit heavy weights no more than 4 days a week. Monday, Tuesday, rest Wednesday, then lift again Thursday and Friday. Rest over the weekend, rinse and repeat. That seemed an optimal regimen for max muscle gain with minimal burnout or injury.

Also, don't ever workout the same muscle/body part two days in a row for said recovery to be most beneficial. On Mondays we worked upper body pushing exercises, high weight/low rep (bench press, chest butterflies, military shoulder press, tricep extension workouts like dips and skull crushers, etc). Tuesday was upper body pulling exercises, high weight/low rep (upper back like pullups and pull downs, bicep curls, upright or seated rows for lats, etc). I think on Thursdays we worked lower body pushing exercises like squats, leg press, quad extensions, etc) plus some more upper body pushing exercises but low weight/high rep. Then Friday, lower body pulling exercises like hamstring curls, lunges, etc) and some upper body pulling exercises low weight/high rep. It's been over 20 years since I lifted a single weight but I seem to recall that this was our workout for maximum gainz.

If 4 days is too often, you can also consolidate some to make it a three day per week regimen. Important thing is allowing each muscle group to rest and recover before working it out again. See my post below:

I have to somehow get in shape while being lazy. No gym.

Very simple What directions, or where should I head to learn to get in shape? I read stuff, I watch you tube, I print up work out routines but just walking doesn't show results so I'm thinking I got two five pounds weights and I'm very weak mucle my skeleton muscle is near below normal. So I'm...

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[thegreenhand]

I never tried taking more than 15 mg of mirtazapine, maybe that could be a good solution. For sure I have to discontinue the Trazodone, I hate it and it's too similar to mirtazapine anyway, probably it's just better to take more mirtazapine as they both act on the same receptors (histamine for sedative effect).
Only thing that stopped me from taking more mirtazapine is that I saw a study saying that the highest sedative effect of mirtazapine is at around 15 mg, while higher doses are more activating. Normally that wouldn't be so bad, but with my insomnia i'm worrying about that.

i had the same worries when increasing my mirtazipine from 15 mg to 30 mg but it's generally been positive.

~1 hour after dosing the 30 mg i start to feel really tired. typically i take the pill and then put my phone away and start the bedtime ritual (i still have some days of bad screen addiction tho). and within 1.5 hours of dosing i'm in a restful, rejuvenating sleep. it definitely didn't worsen my insomnia (i've had horrible insomnia since childhood)

i do have some trouble waking up in the morning, but this can be avoided by dosing more like 2 hours before you plan to go to bed (the hard part is staying up that extra hour).

throughout the day i do feel the more activating effects of the drug. and fwiw, SSRIs/SNRIs made me feel even more activated and made my insomnia much much worse.

if i were you i'd try the higher mirtazipine dose before trying a whole new drug, especially given how long you've been taking it