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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

Not to split hairs, but do you really think you can distinguish 5-10 mg MDA taken with a standard dose of MDMA (call it ~2 mg per kg body weight) from a placebo taken with that same standard dose of MDMA? Idk for sure, but I would guess no one can reliably and consistently delineate between MDMA and MDMA with an added 5-10 mg MDA solely through subjective analysis of the qualitative effects.

I've read that up to 15% of orally ingested MDMA can demethylate to MDA during first pass metabolism anyway. This makes me even more doubtful it would be easy to tell.

Now if you had said: 150 mg MDMA versus a 150 mg 1:1 ratio of MDMA:MDA, in other words: 75 mg MDMA + 75 mg MDA, I like to think that's a bit more obvious. But then again, can most people distinguish MDMA from MDA? I think so, but it would be better to see a well conducted study, ya know? … I'd sign up for that study, lol!

Now obviously I couldn’t say as I havent done a double blind but over the years I’ve felt it in batches that later lab tested showing small amounts. Ive also added it myself at those amounts more than a couple times.

5mg would be pushing it but 10mg I think I could distinguish. 15-20 and it’s becoming obvious.

Also MDA the metabolite is a different beast compared to exogenous MDA. The isomer ratios are different, there’s more S-MDA formed as the metabolite which is like a shorter acting MDMA. R-MDA is where we start to see the differences big time.

As for how many people can distinguish, that’s a good question.. I too would be more than willing lol. Overall I’ve seen most people to tell the difference (MDMA vs MDA solo), those that didn’t were the types to chalk it up as variations in the MDMA experience itself. Education usually resolves that.

All that said, the more experienced someone is the more they can differentiate. I don’t expect a newer user to feel 10mg MDA, maybe half n half but definitely not 10. It takes time and experience to learn the nuances unless you study them extensively beforehand.

MDA is a weird one too that I think varies more than MDMA batches IMO. I used to chalk it up to isomer ratios but now who knows..

-GC
 
Eh... I think the 80s had some good movies, some good songs, but were overall not a good decade. The 90s were where it's at. Women started taking more roles in films and true feminism that wasn't overtly hating against males for being males. Not saying all of them do, but it's something we've obviously seen more as social media allows us to see more. The 80s were a rocky time for a lot of women, still being hit on and not being able to do anything about it. I've heard multiple stories from my mom who worked in a hospital how they were constantly harrassed and she even had to beat up a doctor who tried to rape her.

Idk where I'm going with this exactly, I guess I look at the 80s as not the greatest time for women. I mean Molly Ringwald was like, 13 or 14 in Sixteen Candles, and that movie ends with a chick having been fucked while passed out drunk and it was considered a joke.

Metallica, Michael Jackson and some movies do stand out for sure. I just think the 90s were way better, even though I can only remember like, 1997 onwards since I was born in 93.

Much as i love the 80s asthetic the 90s was better. The quality of music and movies will never reach the same level. And yea, the political left where seemingly allot more sane. Basic equality/fairness and treating people properly as opposed to crazed neo-maoist identity politics propagated by a bunch of drones created by the Tavistock institute (fringe lunatics seem to have hyjacked it entirely). I was only a kid but the 90s seems like it was such an optimistic time. Everything seems to have gone downhill from 1999 to now, almost as if by design. Also the quality of the drugs. The proliferation of vast quantities of pure MDMA must have had a positive effect on the culture (reflected partly through allot of the music and other art). I wonder when the legalize MDMA if we will see some kind of renaissance.
 
There's certainly no shortage of it in my area (east coast, US) but LSD is something that is almost impossible to find. Everyone has DMT, mushrooms or mushroom chocolate bars. The bars are pretty weak.

I think things didn't really go downhill until 2001, but you are located in the UK. 2000 was like 1999 part 2 and in general was just an awesome year... until Bush got elected. 9/11 is what changed things forever in this country. One outside could not possibly understand how devastating it was. I'd just started the 2nd grade and I was watching people commit suicide in a burning down building. Going to a catholic school, this is when I first questioned God. Why would he let something so terrible happen? I will never look at the year 2001 and not instantly think of 9/11
 
Mods, can we please send a message or something to stop political talk? I'm tired of it in a thread that has nothing to do with it.
 
It has! But not by random haphazard decline, but by ingenious unsighted design.

Disciples of lurianic kabbalah who own everything planned on a manufactured world apocalypse happening in 2008 (and this would be when their new world order coup was established). It never happened tho. They decided to make everything shit on purpose after 1999, including but not limited to changing the ''tone'' of all music and programming entertainment. Optimistic idealism was to be removed, music was to become downbeat, off key and emphasizing in dissonance and static. Remember shows like Friends ? where everyone was generally supportive and kind to eachother ? (despite being a tad overly sexual promiscuous - which is also part of the agenda) they decided to tear all that up and introduce snarky more viscous humor like that thing Scrubs. They kept pushing things like sexual promiscuous but took away the good elements that they had been also promoting. The tone was changed from upbeat and happy and sad and dissonant. If you dont think these social alchemists who engineer society (in line with their covert religion) also changed drugs and drug culture in line with this planned deterioration then you are wrong. I believe they experimented with MDMA, but found it ultimately not to their liking re their goals. Remember the world needs to be turned upside down before their messiah can come. They aim on manifesting a kind of hell on earth scenario and creating such destruction among the nations prior to a massive coup and the institution of their global utopia/dystopia. They are very active everywhere online like in threads - and are always pushing sardonic, depressive and negative comments and images (this is black magic to code your subconscious). This is to mess with your dreams, increase suicidal ideations, increase propensity towards homicides and so on. Even when they pretend to be helping they are always trying to code this stuff into your submind. Be vigilant therefore, because there are serpents among us ''I know thy tribulation, and thy poverty (but thou art rich), and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan'' - Revelation 2.9

Take this or leave it. Here is a graph in the interests of science https://ibb.co/tsn8XXf (as you can see The Science ie. The Data supports my theorem )
 
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Mods, can we please send a message or something to stop political talk? I'm tired of it in a thread that has nothing to do with it.

Agreed.

Guys while I know this thread is a place of tangents, political talk is the last thing we need in here when it’s infected nearly every other area of conversation. Keep it on topic please!

-GC
 
MAPS released their synthesis method and put it in the public domain. Seems mostly a workaround for banned precursors to me, but I'm not a chemist.

Nirvana Life Sciences has announced a patent application for a safrole-based synthesis that cuts production time 2/3. They call it MDMA HCl Monohydrate and say it's "a novel form of MDMA with increased bioavailability and efficacy."

And then there are quieter (e.g., not very public) efforts such as what is happening at Tactogen and their work on novel compounds.

Anyway, there are all these folks working away studying MDMA and how/where it affects us. Chirality and precursors and subreceptors, oh my!

It is my firm suspicion that many people know a lot but aren't telling. I wish I knew.

And completely unrelatedly I'm happy to say my wife and I went through a very significant milestone of many years married this weekend. Where does the time go?
 
MAPS released their synthesis method and put it in the public domain. Seems mostly a workaround for banned precursors to me, but I'm not a chemist.

Nirvana Life Sciences has announced a patent application for a safrole-based synthesis that cuts production time 2/3. They call it MDMA HCl Monohydrate and say it's "a novel form of MDMA with increased bioavailability and efficacy."

And then there are quieter (e.g., not very public) efforts such as what is happening at Tactogen and their work on novel compounds.

Anyway, there are all these folks working away studying MDMA and how/where it affects us. Chirality and precursors and subreceptors, oh my!

It is my firm suspicion that many people know a lot but aren't telling. I wish I knew.

And completely unrelatedly I'm happy to say my wife and I went through a very significant milestone of many years married this weekend. Where does the time go?

Where’s a link to this information regarding the monohydrate?

This might be the first time I’ve ever heard of any talk regarding efficacy of an MDMA polymorph. If you all remember from years ago, I was studying MDMA polymorphs and theorized MDMA of old was a hydrated polymorph whereas much of today’s is anhydrous. This was based on my studying of Raman spectroscopy.

If they are right, this would fall in line with my theory years ago. This is also something we can all very easily do at home.

More info very much needed on that!

-GC
 
Yeah, so I'm not psyched about publicly correlating usernames across sites in very different topic domains (I partition), so I won't pull him this way. But if you have a specific question, I would be happy to ask him privately and see what happens. (Unsure how the patent application/ provisional patent/approved patent stages work in terms of reticence to talk.)
 
First, let me throw this one up on top so it doesn't get lost. Mindmed is trialing some MDMA-focused stuff.
https://mindmed.co/news/press-relea...ator-initiated-trial-of-mdma-like-substances/

And, G-Chem, Nirvana has released an expanded news release with a bit more information, including two potential points of contact for any inquiries. I'll just cut/paste it:

Nirvana Life Sciences Inc. Announces a Method for Producing MDMA that Reduces Manufacturing Time by Two Thirds

Vancouver, September 20, 2022 (Updated) - Nirvana Life Sciences Inc. (Nirvana or the “Company”) (CSE: NIRV), a western Canadian based life sciences company aimed at developing psychedelic therapeutic medicines, including non-addictive chronic pain and relapse preventing pharmaceutical medicines and formulations to be used in trauma work, is pleased to report the development of a more efficient method for producing MDMA.

Nirvana Life Sciences Inc. is pleased to announce the development of a novel method of producing MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxy methamphetamine) that greatly reduces manufacturing time. This 3-step synthesis, starting from the precursor safrole, takes as little as 24 hours to complete, depending upon which method of reduction of the ketone to the secondary amine is being used. This is approximately one third of the time that’s required to complete current production methods using iso-safrole as an intermediate. Nirvana has filed an Application with the US Patent Office for this invention.

MDMA was first synthesized in 1912, but it was not researched for its therapeutic potential until just recently. The drug is a potent central nervous system (CNS) stimulant the varies greatly in effect from other common stimulants found in the same phenethylamine family of compounds. It is currently being studied and used for the treatment of a wide range of psychiatric disorders such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), depression and anxiety to name a few. MDMA assisted psychotherapy is currently in phase three clinical trials for the treatment of PTSD in the US, Canada, and Israel. This year the FDA expanded access to MDMA, allowing for its compassionate use in clinical settings by patients who have had no success with other FDA approved treatment options.

MDMA effectively shuts down the brain’s fight-or-flight response and creates a sense of empathy in patients, allowing them to process trauma more effectively. The drug increases the amount of serotonin in the synaptic clefts of serotonergic neurons. It also binds to various serotonin receptors and activates them in excess, while simultaneously reducing the reuptake of other neurotransmitters, which is the drugs primary mechanism of action.

Lead chemist and Head of Innovation for Nirvana Life Sciences Inc., Robert August, was the first to successfully crystallize MDMA HCl Monohydrate, a novel form of MDMA with increased bioavailability and efficacy, in 2011 using this new method of synthesis, of which Nirvana Life Sciences Inc. recently announced a patent pending for. The sample created was subsequently used by the University of Cambridge to publish findings after determining its novel fingerprint using X-ray Crystallography. With the growing surge in interest in the research of MDMA in the past few years, and the increasing potentials of its use in therapeutic settings, Nirvana believes that this breakthrough could offer a significant advance in the emerging psychedelic medicines space. We plan on starting in vitro and in vivo testing within the next thirty days to compare the drug’s bioavailability along with efficacy and other factors. The new form of the drug appears to have a quicker onset time than MDMA HCl, causing less instanced of what is known as ‘come up anxiety. This difference alone can make its use in therapeutic formulations much more desirable. Mr. Robert August stated: “As a chemist working hard to advance the field of pharmaceutical psychedelics with new and improved therapeutic medications and their methods of manufacturing, bringing this synthesis route and the monohydrate variant forward for research is an important development. Not only could it eliminate onset anxiety in new patients, it will also save time and money in the production of MDMA and it works well to facilitate the crystallization of MDMA as a novel monohydrate. It is my hope that this advancement will break down some of the barriers to effective production, research and therapeutic use of this unique compound.”

About Nirvana Life Sciences Inc. Nirvana Life Sciences Inc. has been founded with a simple objective of researching and developing non-addictive pain management and relapse prevention products that mitigate the symptoms of chronic pain and support patients who battle with addiction. Nirvana believes that pairing naturally sourced psychedelics with modern medicine holds the promise of delivering non-addictive therapeutic solutions. Backed by a team of global leading researchers, Nirvana will develop life changing therapies for those suffering from pain and addiction and consequently alleviate the fiscally strained medical system.

For further information: Bruce Clark [email protected] Phone: 604-401-8100

Forward Looking Statements This news release contains certain forward-looking statements and forward-looking information (collectively referred to herein as forward- looking statements”) within the meaning of Canadian securities laws including, without limitation, statements with respect to the future investments by the Company. All statements other than statements of historical fact are forward-looking statements. Undue reliance should not be placed on forward-looking statements, which are inherently uncertain, are based on estimates and assumptions, and are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties (both general and specific) that contribute to the possibility that the future events or circumstances contemplated by the forward- looking statements will not occur. Although the Company believes that the expectations reflected in the forward-looking statements contained in this press release, and the assumptions on which such forward- looking statements are made, are reasonable, there can be no assurance that such expectations will prove to be correct. Readers are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements included in this document, as there can be no assurance that the plans, intentions or expectations upon which the forward-looking statements are based will occur. By their nature, forward-looking statements involve numerous assumptions, known and unknown risks and uncertainties that contribute to the possibility that the predictions, forecasts, projections and other forward-looking statements will not occur, which may cause the Company’s actual performance and results in future periods to differ materially from any estimates or projections of future performance or results expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. The forward-looking statements contained in this news release are made as of the date hereof and the Company does not undertake any obligation to update publicly or to revise any of the included forward-looking statements, except as required by applicable law. The forward-looking statements contained herein are expressly qualified by this cautionary statement.
 
Assuming that none of this new version of MDMA 'escapes' into the hands of non-clinical subjects - and I assume also that there will be strict procedures in place to prevent this happening - then how will we know if this is equivalent to MehDMA or MagicDMA? A first time user would surely be unable to reliably tell the difference.
 
After reading more, I’m wondering if it’s just an increase in BA and faster onset of effects. Doesn’t sound like they’ve done much testing either. I’m wondering if this is why we see a bit of a difference in comeup times between batches.

I’m also curious about this supposed novel route, sounds like they may just be trying to patent a route and polymorph just for money’s sake.

Greatly appreciate the additional info :)

-GC
 
Levamisole can be washed out of the freebase with multiple hot water washes, and it wasn’t really being added often until late 00’s. Looking at analysis it seems to be waning in popularity as a cutting agent.

-GC
I’ve performed the le junks wash several times and all I have to say is what a game changer. I gave up on ever finding decent blow again. Does levamisole rinse out with an amonia wash? Also, What is the best method for bringing base back to a powder form ? Thanks in advance.
-C.
 
Wow! It's been forever since I've been on here, much less posted. I was more of a lurker than a poster. I was the guy that was giving everyone OJ and 5-HTP on crack out Sunday. I've been around since the green days, some of y'all will remember that. This is my 3rd user name, somehow I was able to get in! Anyway, I think 2004 and maybe once in 2007 was the last time I indulged. I started around '99-2000 with an orange tulip from the Bronco Bowl in Dallas. Best night ever, man! If you got your hands on A+ ones (shit ones were around, but good ones also still existed), you were gonna have a good night no matter what you did or where you went. That awesome feeling of coming up...that tingling and amazing feeling of your grey matter beginning to flood with serotonin, the jaw chattering, eye rolling, the fusing of yourself with whatever music you were listening to and feeling like you WERE the music, photon light shows that took you to another planet. It went from all that to just feeling strange, often moody and anti-social, feeling disappointed because your night that you had been planning for months now had a big shit stain on it. From magical to pissed and awkward. Ah well, at least I have the memories. How great it would be if the stuff from the last few posts materialises and causes a comeback! I'd have to do it once. Meltdown 2 at Dallas Market Hall...anyone remember how right at 4 they blasted us with fluorescent lights and pissed everyone off after an awesome party? DJ Micro at the Bronco Bowl? Ridglea Theatre? Good times! Mods, I'm just nostalgic and rambling...sorry if this is in the wrong spot...feel free to move.

EDIT: So I read a little bit back in the posts. I'm genuinely asking here...if there is good stuff still around, where is it? And those of you who say you've had the good stuff, how does it fit with my description of my experiences above? And please nobody use the word tolerance or burnout as the reasons for shit pills. I didn't start till around 24-25. I was (and am) the nerd taking care of myself and everyone and being healthy. Hell, I was on here reading 2-3 hours/day. I'm sceptical because I can't even find real shit (lsd, klonopin) on the dark web. Morons are selling fake shit everywhere. Maybe I've been outta the game too long.
 
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That awesome feeling of coming up...that tingling and amazing feeling of your grey matter beginning to flood with serotonin, the jaw chattering, eye rolling, the fusing of yourself with whatever music you were listening to and feeling like you WERE the music, photon light shows that took you to another planet. It went from all that to just feeling strange, often moody and anti-social, feeling disappointed
I never had such rapid descents like that, but people around me did. One of my friends would feel it for an hour tops, I'd still be wide awake at sunrise.

There would always be someone whose pupils were like planets, where others could have twice as much and just sit there chilling, chewing gum and you could hardly tell they were on anything.

That, aside from the completely wrong assertion that there is something wrong with modern MDMA, is what I don't like about this thread.

MDMA, for me, wasn't about everyone being on the same wavelength. It allowed everyone to be themselves, have their own experience, and that individuality was, paradoxically, what unified us and made conversation and finding new things about each other, interesting.

That is lost on some people though. It's a shame.
 
EDIT: So I read a little bit back in the posts. I'm genuinely asking here...if there is good stuff still around, where is it?

Not heard of any in the uk for years, dark markets in general for years (wherever located). Seems locally sourced in the US is fairly successful, and maybe some other areas.
Edit: I forgot there was one report recently on here of good stuff obtained in the uk although from a batch that is a few years old or something and of unknown origin.
 
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