What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[someguyontheinternet]

What about

 

[elgoucho9]

Let me just stop you right there. Nothing I said above could be construed as not agreeing with "shit in, shit out." You're not disagreeing with me; you clearly must not be understanding what I'm saying here. Don't start talking about impurities in the reaction next, because that's an ENTIRELY different matter that has NOTHING to do with using PMK-glycidate as a starting point. This is a straw man argument you're making otherwise.


See? Straw man argument. This is kangaroo court.

Come on, man. If this is the case, then we are no longer discussing MDMA. I'm talking about in the instance of having the right precursors, and knowing how to purify them and verify purity, then there is no way anything else would be produced. People keep tossing out these odd scenarios in which CLEARLY other compounds are being produced as if it's some kind of news no one else knew anything about until just now. Yeah, no fucking shit "garbage in, garbage out". And? That's not news. I'm not talking about starting any reactions with impurity-riddled shit. It's an absolute given that one would clean their own product before using. This is not a valid rebuttal. You said "I disagree" but then fail to disagree. Instead you present an entirely different, asinine argument that I would never make and was not making to begin with. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills explaining this shit over and over.

@G_Chem you of all people should know better by now, man. Why are you trying to make this argument? I didn't say any fucking thing about retarded-ass wannabe chemist morons doing shit chemistry. If that's the case, then THAT'S the problem and it has fuck all to do with starting with PMK-glycidate, PMK, safrole, isosafrole, 5-bromo-1,3-benzodioxole, or any other precursor. I'm trying to get people to understand that it doesn't matter where you start, it only matters where you end up if you do organic chemistry properly. Yields might suck ass, but the purity should NEVER be low. It's not hard to understand.

The age old debate.

One constant i notice is the clear mdma is usually lacking. Whereas brown sugar or cola is usually better. But why when that would surely be a sign of impurity i am not sure.

When the glycidate first came about there was an abundance of shit MDMA. Now this seems to no longer be the case. I wonder were some chemists at one point making another product entirely at one stage. That clear stuff that smelt like acetone was wet and produced a 2 hour high surely was not MDMA at all.

 

[unodelacosa]

The age old debate.

It's not a debate. There's nothing to debate. We're either discussing MDMA hydrochloride or we're not. There should not be any confusion to this.

One constant i notice is the clear mdma is usually lacking.

Not the stuff I'm getting right now, and not the stuff I used to produce twenty-something years ago. Again, it looked exactly like what you see at the end of this write-up from the Rhodium archive on the Erowid. That shit has blown everyone's mind who's taken it so far.

Whereas brown sugar or cola is usually better.

So I typically take this stuff, crush it up, put it in a filter, and rinse it with icecold anhydrous acetone, and it comes out pureAF and very potent. It has nothing to do with the small amount of discoloration in the end product, which I understand is literally from the starting precursor oil itself, splashed in at the end as an indication of authenticity and purity, ironically enough.

When the glycidate first came about there was an abundance of shit MDMA. Now this seems to no longer be the case.

Correlation does not imply causation, you know. Also: how did you know that PMK-glycidate was the actual starting precursor for the material that you had? It isn't like that info is available, nor would I trust anyone to be truthful about this.

I wonder were some chemists at one point making another product entirely at one stage. That clear stuff that smelt like acetone was wet and produced a 2 hour high surely was not MDMA at all.

Yes, you're onto the right way of thinking. You recognize that it was not MDMA that you were taking then, or at least there was more than just MDMA in what you took. NOW that's actually logical. Thank you.

There's nothing wrong with MDMA.HCl itself. And if you're certain it's not you who has changed, then that means, by order of elimination, it's not actual MDMA.HCl you're getting. If a chemist is doing something different in the synthesis, maybe using a new route, or changing something crucial, then the output from that is not going to be just MDMA, if any MDMA is produced at all. But by then, we're no longer discussing MDMA.HCl, which is the salt of one, discrete, racemic compound. Isomeric blends would not account for this dramatic of a difference, and besides, LE does not report discovery of different isomeric blends. It is almost always racemic as has been demonstrated earlier in this thread, QED.

In other words: could we please stop playing semantics? There is no right or wrong; there is no debate here. We're discussing two different things as if they're counterpoints. They are not. That's not to say there aren't dealers out there hawking their vaguely serotonergic RC wares as "MDMA" or "Molly" or whatever gets people to buy it expecting to roll. It's an unregulated market. It isn't like anyone can complain to a regulating government body. Meanwhile, presumptive drug tests can easily be fooled by these clowns. They're the same kind of assholes who sell "Tusibi" – basically pink-colored food dye mixed in with some blend of Ketamine, MDMA, and/or Cocaine – knowing full and well that it will confuse people who heard good things about the psychedelic drug 2C-B, which is 4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine, and not a hodgepodge potpourri of shit they had lying around. Tusibi is like an unwelcome fruitcake for the holidays. The chef just cobbled in a bunch of leftover shit and called it cake. Viola.

Real MDMA hydrochloride is out there. It's up to you to find it. I can't help ya, but hang tight and the legal stuff will be available eventually if you don't find it sooner.

 

[unodelacosa]

unodelacosa said:

that's what I've been saying. It's hard to read a bunch of ppl's comments trying to convince me that MDMA has been magically changed, though no one has any proof of any chemical difference whatsoever and meanwhile I just took some MDMA the other night that had me rolling my face off hard: full-on nystagmus, jaw quivers, euphoria, anxiolysis, and that raw feeling of pure, in-the-moment empathy for all of mankind and the general notion that everything will be okay and everything is in its right place. There's no mistaking or denying that it's real MDMA hydrochloride.

Consider yourself lucky!

Ok, but just FWIW, this stuff is all TF over NYC, Brooklyn, Queens, probably The Bronx and Staten Island, too. We've had MDA, as well, and stellar pressed pills as of late: Teslas, Baby Yodas, Gameboys, Armanis…

I think the real problem is that REAL mdma.hcl is many times harder to source nowadays than it was in, say, 1997.

Yeah idk, I think it's a person-to-person kinda thing there. I have no problems, but I actively go out to a lot of rave culture events and whatnot. There's a lot of nightlife in the city where I live, so it stands to reason it's not hard for me to find. I know a lot of scenesters, hipsters, ravers, hustlers, party promoters, club kids, artists, DJs, burners, transgender, queerfolk, and psychonauts. Though I swear, ketamine is the king drug right now unfortunately.

It could be that PMK-glycidate fueling those reported 250 mg pressed pills @ pill reports is, in fact, NOT a suitable precursor.

I can't imagine it's difficult to use suitably as a precursor. PMK is MDP-2-P, which I used to produce from safrole. If you start from PMK, you're cutting out a lot of the work-up. Now, I'm not sure why the glycidate molecule was added to PMK, but I have two main guesses, either of which, or both, might be accurate. 1.) attaching the glycidate works to preserve the ketone which would otherwise need to be kept in the freezer to preserve it. A couple weeks shipping from China probably would not bode well for any MDP-2-P. And 2.) it was previously not on the List 1 precursor watched list the DEA puts out, and thus less susceptible to interception by LE. PMK has been on that list for a long time, but not PMK-glycidate until somewhat recently. This is just my own conjecture though.

But let's say you're right. After all, having never fucked with Chinese PMK-glycidate myself, maybe there's some shit I don't know (should just be a little HCl reflux, but who knows). Either way, if that's the case, and some other compound is being produced instead… then we're no longer talking about MDMA.HCl. We're discussing whatever those other compounds happen to be, possibly in conjunction with some fraction of real MDMA.HCl. Maybe this has happened, but if so, it's not on a global scale, and not ubiquitous, like some people seem convinced. The best guess I've heard so far was earlier on the thread and involving MDDMA and MDTMA side-products following accidental production of impure methylamine contaminated with dimethylamine and trimethylamine, which is pretty common during methylamine production if care isn't taken to prevent this and isolate the methylamine. In this instance, both the MDDMA and MDTMA would act as 5-HT reuptake inhibitors and blockade any MDMA from traveling up the serotonin transporter to the presynaptic 5-HT storage. I wouldn't say this scenario is highly likely, but it is plausible at least.

 

[vash445]

If PMK-glycidate were not a suitable precursor, the end product would not be MDMA. And yet, the end product is MDMA, so that idea doesn't hold water in my book. PMK-glycidate is easily converted into PMK, which is piperonyl methyl ketone. This is another name for what is called MDP-2-P, which is 3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone. All of this easily fact-checkable. I don't understand why people are getting confused over this. PMK/MDP-2-P is a direct precursor intermediate "bridge", if you will, from isosafrole to MDMA via reductive amination. I know this for fact because I used to manufacture it myself and I have a background in organic chemistry.

And there are tons of ways of producing MDMA. Just recently, in the pharmaceutical industry, an article was recently published called Fully Validated, Multi-Kilogram cGMP Synthesis of MDMA that explains how they used 5-bromo-1,3-benzodioxole as a starting precursor to avoid geopolitical red tape in procuring a List 1 precursor. Also do note: that even in that particular synthesis, exotic though the starting material may be for an MDMA synthesis, they produce PMK as an intermediate. So, regardless if one starts with sassafras oil, safrole, isosafrole, PMK glycidate, or 5-bromo-1,3-benzodioxole, the move to make is the same: precursor → ketone → MDMA. The chemist either makes it or they don't. The precursor will only affect yields, but not quality. That's how chemistry works.

I don't know about that as blanket advice. My girlfriend gets sick if she doesn't have a little food in her stomach before taking MDMA. Not much either – something light like a peanut butter & jelly sandwich, some crackers and cheese, or maybe a yogurt, something like that. Certainly not a four course meal or anything heavy, no roast beef sub with a side of curly fries and onion rings or something, lol. Calamari as an appetizer, French onion soup, a Cobb salad, then the main course of Roast duck with scalloped potatoes and asparagus paired with a white wine, though the right Chianti could pair nicely as well… finally, for dessert: Bananas Foster. Following this meal up with a dose of MDMA is setting oneself up for disappointment most likely. Metabolism likely plays a role. You know? Or give it four or five hours to metabolize.


Yeah, I've made that mistake before. Much later in the evening, I was the only one still awake, just rolling my face off and listening to headphones by myself. I took some LSD just to keep me company…

The MAPS MDMA has produced some bomb shit... you can find a white talc like powder on the darknet around...

More interesting I find
Swim in the Chiral Pool: MDMA and MDA Enantiomers from Alanine-Derived Precursors


https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsomega.3c02358


or


Synthesis of R- and S-MDMA via nucleophilic ring-opening of homochiral N-tosylaziridines

https://www.publish.csiro.au/ch/fulltext/CH23064

But by in large I believe most MDMA is still made with safrole or glycidate... safrole is a around from a few vendors of commerce in bulk if you look as low as 20 kg....

 

[vash445]

Now, I'm not sure why the glycidate molecule was added to PMK, but I have two main guesses, either of which, or both, might be accurate. 1.) attaching the glycidate works to preserve the ketone which would otherwise need to be kept in the freezer to preserve it. A couple weeks shipping from China probably would not bode well for any MDP-2-P. And 2.) it was previously not on the List 1 precursor watched list the DEA puts out, and thus less susceptible to interception by LE. PMK has been on that list for a long time, but not PMK-glycidate until somewhat recently. This is just my own conjecture though.

The story goes that someguy had millions of dollars worth of MDP2P in china and was an Australian national. the MDP2P was being banned so he asked a lab in china to change it to something else and the rest is history. The path mass has been talked about in TS1/2 as well... I'm shocked we haven't see the bisulfate adduct... I imagine it would be much the same.

*edit full story

There's an ebook called 'Pills Of God' on Amazon about one of the guys involved in the discovery of this process, it happened much earlier than 2012 though.

He was a Dutch cook and flew to Shanghai to a factory where they had dozens of tons of PMK they couldn't sell because it had been recently banned. He put 2mil upfront he borrowed off the author of the book and had the factories entire stock converted into this new precursor and shipped a bit to Australia and the rest to Europe. The author of the book was an Australian cook the Dutch guy met when they were both in jail in the US a decade or so earlier.

Unfortunately the dutch cook had a bad stroke and became basically a vegetable, and the Australian guy got busted running the largest MDMA lab my country had ever seen (He pulled off a single reaction yielding more than 500kg of MDMA) and got 25 years hard time in maximum security. You can write to him in prison and he responds, his name is Steven Spaliviero.

PMK-glycidate the pre-precursor that brought back MDMA

PMK-glycidate the pre-precursor that brought back MDMA

www.thevespiary.org

Interesting bit of history.

There's a Aussie documentary about the lab bust, 'https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B07M7SLVZJ?ref_=atv_dp_pb_core&tag=justusbyur-20

 

[G_Chem]

@unodelcosa you literally said…

“The precursor will only affect yields, but not quality. That's how chemistry works.“

Which is just plain wrong. I was simply responding to this horribly wrong statement. I read you perfectly.

-GC

 

[someguyontheinternet]

If discussing the work up and purification of a compound, isn't it multifactorial? The chirality of the precursor and the reaction mechanisms and how well the chemist purifies things between reactions? The balance of enantiomers can be impacted by the route and precursor and whether or not the chemist is able to detect whether they have a racemic mixture and what they do to manage it I would assume

In my mind, quality can be related not only to purity but types of impurities along with enantiomer ratio

 

[unodelacosa]

Interesting bit of history.

There's a Aussie documentary about the lab bust, 'https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B07M7SLVZJ?ref_=atv_dp_pb_core&tag=justusbyur-20

Excellent links and share, @vash445. Much appreciated.

@unodelcosa you literally said…

“The precursor will only affect yields, but not quality. That's how chemistry works.“

Which is just plain wrong. I was simply responding to this horribly wrong statement. I read you perfectly.

I didn't think I had to qualify that statement for you, knowing that you generally know organic chem. I'm talking about the instance in which the chemist is going to clean and isolate the end product, of course.

So the statement wasn't just wrong, but in fact "horribly wrong"? I didn't know I had traipsed into the horror genre with that statement. And tell me: why is it that 'horrible' and 'horrific' both mean roughly the same thing, but then there's 'terrible' and 'terrific' which mean opposites… hmmm?

If discussing the work up and purification of a compound, isn't it multifactorial?

Yes

The chirality of the precursor and the reaction mechanisms and how well the chemist purifies things between reactions?

Sometimes chirality matters, sometimes not. For example, the reduction of ephedrine to methamphetamine generally produces d-isomer-only methamphetamine. On the other hand, P-2-P (BMK) and MDP-2-P (PMK) exhibit no chirality and will produce racemic results in virtually every reduction scenario unless some kind of enantiomeric shielding is used or a enantiomerically specific reaction is performed. But that's mostly the purview of Big Pharma.

The balance of enantiomers can be impacted by the route and precursor and whether or not the chemist is able to detect whether they have a racemic mixture and what they do to manage it I would assume

It's usually planned. If one is manufacturing MDMA via any of the known, popular routes to MDMA, one should expect a racemic end product as well as any side products would be racemic too.

In my mind, quality can be related not only to purity but types of impurities along with enantiomer ratio

When you're referring to subjective qualitative effects in the human body, yes, this can be true. As previously discussed throughout the thread, certain impurities point to the synthetic route used, and L.E. use this data for investigation. Also, a compound like MDDMA or MDTMA would likely have some negative impact on MDMA's effects if it were present. Note though that it is a discrete, separate substance from MDMA.

From the chemical standpoint, impurity is impurity and we seek to minimize this for reasons that should be more or less obvious.

 

[vash445]

Excellent links and share, @vash445. Much appreciated.


I didn't think I had to qualify that statement for you, knowing that you generally know organic chem. I'm talking about the instance in which the chemist is going to clean and isolate the end product, of course.

So the statement wasn't just wrong, but in fact "horribly wrong"? I didn't know I had traipsed into the horror genre with that statement. And tell me: why is it that 'horrible' and 'horrific' both mean roughly the same thing, but then there's 'terrible' and 'terrific' which mean opposites… hmmm?


Yes


Sometimes chirality matters, sometimes not. For example, the reduction of ephedrine to methamphetamine generally produces d-isomer-only methamphetamine. On the other hand, P-2-P (BMK) and MDP-2-P (PMK) exhibit no chirality and will produce racemic results in virtually every reduction scenario unless some kind of enantiomeric shielding is used or a enantiomerically specific reaction is performed. But that's mostly the purview of Big Pharma.


It's usually planned. If one is manufacturing MDMA via any of the known, popular routes to MDMA, one should expect a racemic end product as well as any side products would be racemic too.


When you're referring to subjective qualitative effects in the human body, yes, this can be true. As previously discussed throughout the thread, certain impurities point to the synthetic route used, and L.E. use this data for investigation. Also, a compound like MDDMA or MDTMA would likely have some negative impact on MDMA's effects if it were present. Note though that it is a discrete, separate substance from MDMA.

From the chemical standpoint, impurity is impurity and we seek to minimize this for reasons that should be more or less obvious.

Excellent links and share, @vash445. Much appreciated.

NARCO X: God created man, man created ecstasy, and I made it for the Sinaloa Cartel and the CIA​

Steven Spaliviero, Izzy Findlay (Editor)​

This sensational true story places the reader in the shoes of a major narcotics producer and reveals his motives to become the largest Ecstasy manufacturer in history. Spaliviero shares intimate details of his life – from a bully kid to becoming involve with the Sinaloa cartel and his close relationship with a CIA official who helped him traffic $21 billion of narcotics around the world

 

[Youknowwhatitis]

Mod edit: The old thread has gone over 250 pages a while ago, which is about the length we use as a soft limit for threads, which lessens the impact on our database. As such, this is the new iteration of the "What is wrong with the MDMA available today?" thread. The previous iteration of this thread can be found here

---

NOTE: A handy draft summary (work-in-progress) of some of the key content covered in this thread can be accessed ⫸HERE⫷

See the second post by indigoaura in this thread for a thorough explanation of the same concepts and an overview of relevant research and theories

---

Let me first give you a little background. I'm 51 years old and started doing ecstasy the last year it was legal in 1985. Needless to say the legal ecstasy from the so called "Dallas Group" was nothing short of spectacular. In 1988 I made a connection with someone from the San Francisco area who was in the production field of making MDMA. I have maintained that friendship and connection ever since with only small periods of downtime. The MDMA I get from him is an extremely fine bleach white crystalline powder that is fluffy and lays just like snow. The high from this MDMA takes about 10-15 minutes to take effect and the high is always the same. An extremely smooth come up followed by excessive love and empathy. You will literally melt into the person you're with and sex is out of this world. Touch and feel is heavenly. All you want to do is touch and feel on the person youre with and tell them how beautiful they are and how much you love them etc. There are massive eye wiggles and conversation flows like new born buddas. The come down is just as smooth as the come up. It drops you off just like a feather and sleep comes like a baby. The next day is nothing short of spectacular. You wake up feeling anti-depressed and chatty. You'll want to talk on the phone, visit friends or just drive around and enjoy the day with the top down. It's all I've ever known as an MDMA experience.

Now that brings me to modern day MDMA. There was a period back in the early 2000's when my connection was down and I scored pills from a local guy. They were great and with some very small exceptions, nearly as good as my crystalline powder. But once again I've been forced to score something locally and the stuff is just plain crap. And I mean crap. I've done both the orange Tesla's and the red Supremes. Absolutely awful, but from reading the trip reports on Pillreports, you would have thought they were the best ever. They're actually anything but. I had both of these pills tested on ecstasydata and both came back as pure MDMA.

Both of them took about 30-40 minutes to kick in and when they did, there was a slight feeling of euphoria and empathy that quickly faded and from there on out it was just a fucked up buzz. There were eye wiggles, but I wasn't feeling good when they were happening. I became extremely tired and kind of gacked out. The high from these pills seemed to last forever, maybe just because they sucked so much. I felt like a crackhead on the comedown and the next day felt like a bad MDA hangover. There was no next day afterglow at all. Just a different kind of fucked up than the night before. And that lasted the entire next day. There is a HUGE giveaway that youre doing todays crappy MDMA. Your pupils will not dialate all the way to the very edge like old school ecstasy. With old school ecstasy your pupils consume literally all of the color in your eye with only a microscopic sliver of color left around the outer edge. With modern day ecstasy your pupils will only dialate to slightly beyond normal if at all. Thats a big giveaway youre doing new school MDMA junk.

Before you jump to the assumption that this Le Junk guy is just old, hes done way to much ecstasy over the course of his lifetime and this is just a matter of tolerance, please re-read my post stating that I still have access to old school MDMA that Ive had since the 1980s. So in one hand I have modern day lab tested MDMA crap and in the other hand, old school MDMA heaven. So tolerance is out the window. Moving forward...

My question is this. Is this the best there is out there today? And since both pills tested on ecstasydata as pure MDMA, what is wrong with MDMA production nowdays? Does anyone else feel what I'm talking about here? My setting is pretty much always the same so that's not it. I always hear people talk about the setting as if that's an issue. With the crystalline powder, it doesn't matter where I am, it's always great. But with these Supremes and Teslas, it's just a sub-par, little euphoria, no real love or empathy, fucked up kinda buzz. Let me put it this way, if this was all that was available to me, I'd quit taking MDMA altogether. Terrible!

When people say they buy mdma or it comes from the Netherlands they mean Michigan. That’s where the original pills were produced. That’s why they weren’t really here and they pretend they were Canadian or they got bought and brought somewhere else. Who knows where all this stuff on the deep web ships from. Ypsilanti or Ann Arbor could have them. That’s where it was still weird like In Netherlands. Maybe they did move to Europe but it’s still rainy cloudy and foggy like in Amsterdam we just haven’t broken completely free from parasites by using the real hard drugs.

All these drugs including marijuana were illegal in Amsterdam or in the Netherlands, or just ecstasy and crack and meth and other pills were legal. They say in Amsterdam because not many people were in Ypsilanti and no really cares what goes out in the boonies. Nothing is illegal out there everyone wants to leave. The Netherlands was the whole bogged region like above the USA where all the lakes and water was.

A lot of ecstasy was fake or extremely hard to find, besides in Florida where it was probably expensive or cheap. Sometimes there was just large amounts like a few bins or a few kilos or a few hundred grams and a small group used it and video producers made videos and it seemed like a giant amount of partying was going on or available it may have just been one summer and then stuff like smuggling or places like electric forest existed. But ecstasy should always be in night club areas or cities. Meth and other drugs or stuff like research chemicals are commonly sold as mdma in capsules or were ten plus years ago. An e pill didn’t necessarily mean it had ecstasy or just ecstasy in it, the drug is men’s but it’s called ecstasy. But ecstasy is a feeling of like having sexual intercourse with kissing and stuff. An e pill could contain opiates, benzos, cocaine, meth, psychedelics like mescaline or lsd, separate in pills or all mixed into one instead of or even with mdma. E pills were a slang term for the shapes like monkeys, transformers, bart simpsons, butterflies, and there is an online pill identifier for them but anyone could stamp these out by casting or carving them self or by buying them. China sells them online but it may be a set up, they even sold stamps for name brand pills like Vicodin, Xanax, or oxycodone and stuff.

Because it’s an easy way for medium skin toned scammers to get money.

5 dollar Slushies at the Bloomfield hills somer set mall had mdma in them back in 2012.

 

[Youknowwhatitis]

NARCO X: God created man, man created ecstasy, and I made it for the Sinaloa Cartel and the CIA​

Steven Spaliviero, Izzy Findlay (Editor)​

This sensational true story places the reader in the shoes of a major narcotics producer and reveals his motives to become the largest Ecstasy manufacturer in history. Spaliviero shares intimate details of his life – from a bully kid to becoming involve with the Sinaloa cartel and his close relationship with a CIA official who helped him traffic $21 billion of narcotics around the world

The actual Sinaloa cartel had less than 300 members, more like 20 to 30, where the other are their gay skinny boy slaves.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

The actual Sinaloa cartel had less than 300 members, more like 20 to 30, where the other are their gay skinny boy slaves.

yeah, I think we do know what it is now

 

[vash445]

The actual Sinaloa cartel had less than 300 members, more like 20 to 30, where the other are their gay skinny boy slaves.

The actual Sinaloa cartel had less than 300 members, more like 20 to 30, where the other are their gay skinny boy slaves.

On 25 February 2009, the U.S. government announced the arrest of 750 members of the Sinaloa Cartel across the U.S. in Operation Xcellerator. They also announced the seizure of more than $59 million in cash and numerous vehicles, planes, and boats.[62][63] Operation Xcellerator was an operation conducted by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, with cooperation from Mexican and Canadian authorities, against Sinaloa Cartel drug traffickers. In February 2009, after a 21-month operation, it totalled 755 suspects arrested across California, Minnesota, and Maryland. narco X was written 2017 6 years after the events Operation Xcellerator but the timeline matches the glyciate of 2009-12

​

El Chapo sons among 28 Sinaloa cartel members charged by US Published 12:19 PM PST, April 14, 2023

Seems like there was MORE then 30. But the 30 were the "main chain of command" I assume

 

[vash445]

Everyone who has a CHEMISTRY BACKGROUND in this forum should attempt to reachout to Malcom Mcleod
Contact | CAHMA


https://theconversation.com/profiles/malcolm-mcleod-1371768 .

I would like the messages to be as professional from an academic standpoint and less of a I do drugs, these drugs are off please help me 5000 miles away. And more of we are a group of scientists, chemists, "drug testing collation online" ,concerned citizens, etc. I also feel we could best explain with OUR NMR/MALDI/GC-MS results, theories, etc. Without clogging up his email needlessly. And basically just asking him we need as many NMR results and X-Ray diffraction analysis (XRD) or similar if possible to interpret as possible because.... GC/MS at energy control or private universities lab, FTIR at GYTD and ramen and paperspray mass spec and UVIC show high purity etc. But when some of those high purity samples were subjected to NMR at the private university lab we saw dimmers, MDP2Pol etc I think, while only the single "magic batch" had a clean NMR etc. etc. ? Hell if possible, they might not have to read it for us, but if enough of us chime in maybe they will tackle this WITH U maybe some aussies are here and can reachout in person with meh. I'm sure we have enough volunteers or I guess I could always bribe the person who did the first results to read some of them off.

I have in the mean time have attempted to get backing thru a few friends and generous donators online for Getyourdrugstest.com to get funding for an NMR machine, either one that does or doesnt use consumables IE Liquid nitrogen or helium to keep the magnets cool, said we can obtain funding for a Burnker NMR right away but if you would like something else please let us know , I found a full running system that used consumables for 10k on ebay free deliverly to CAD TO CAD but never heard a response back after a VERY heavy starting donation by myself and I def knew a few other people willing to drop a few k each... .... if they were interested . Anyways I have 2 ideas.

The first and why is to reach out to them/him and say Getyourdrugstested.com is not inserted in a donated NMR at this time. Either because the time to run the test is slow, the cost is "too high" or that, "FTIR, Ramen and paper spray mass spec are good enough," even though I had a batch of "tested FXE with FTIR, RAMEN and paperspray mass spec" FXE that is 100% probably Can-ket... what is can-ket... the same drug they discovered with NMR details below and why I figured we should reach out as someone who can help us!

Malcolm McLeod is a chemist with research interests in analytical and organic chemistry. He serves as the scientific advisor to Pill Testing Australia and Directions Health Services. He leads the team of chemists conducting analysis at the CanTEST pilot, Australia's first fixed site drug checking service supported by the ACT Government.

The CanTEST Health and Drug Checking Service is operated by Directions Health Services and CAHMA with technical assistance from Pill Testing Australia. This is a free service their contact details are in the link below

Contact | CAHMA

Story of (CAN-KET 2F-NENDCK). As 2’-fluoro-2-oxo-phenylcyclohexylethylamine is a bit of a mouthful, our team has taken to calling it CanKet, as in “Canberra ketamine and why WE should reachout

An entirely new illicit drug has been discovered by Australian chemists. Here’s how they did it. After this feat of chemical analysis, we are now able to identify CanKet with impunity and GYTD and UVIC cant detect it still... most FXE is canket anyways

One of them (sold as FXE) was sent to drugs data and was returned as an (to me) obvious intermediate/precursor:

This doesn't strictly answer your question but FXE (3'-Fluoro-2-oxo-PCE) has never actually existed on the grey market. Everything sold as FXE is actually 'CanKet' (2'-Fluoro-2-oxo-PCE). Apart from your example which seems to be some random precursor?

In 2022 some Ketamine samples tested by CanTest in Australia didn't quite match any known substance. They eventually found it was 2'-Fluoro-2-oxo-PCE, which had never been sold on the grey market or described in any literature. (This article goes over how: https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/canket-analytical-chemistr/).

Once analytical standards were made available in 2023 Drugsdata realized that every 'FXE' sample they had ever tested actually matched Canket. They released a statement retroactively stating that all positive FXE tests were actually CanKet. To this day they have never seen any FXE. See statement https://drugsdata.org/view.php?id=13636

Apr 27 2023: This sample was originally reported as containing Fluorexetamine (3-Fluoro-2-oxo PCE). A certified reference standard became available for 2-Fluoro-2-oxo PCE in early 2023.

All samples analyzed by the DrugsData lab prior to early 2023 that were reported as containing Fluorexetamine have been reexamined in comparison to this new standard. They have all been retroactively revised; they all contain 2-Fluoro-2-oxo PCE, including this sample. To date, no samples tested by DrugsData have contained 3-Fluoro-2-oxo PCE.


Imagine, if you will, a small plastic baggy containing a mixture of crystals and powder.

The person presenting it thinks “it might be ketamine?”, but admits the subjective effects are different to what they’re used to. How do we find out if it’s what they think it is? And what are the consequences if it isn’t?

This is a typical scenario for the people working at CanTEST – Australia’s first and only fixed-site, face-to-face drug checking service, located in Canberra.

And in this case, it led chemists to discover a drug never before seen in Australia, and with no associated clinical information from anywhere in the world.
The identification of new psychoactive substances – drugs made to resemble established illicit drugs – presents a major challenge when pill-testing. Testing a chemical provides us with its “fingerprint” that will hopefully match one of the thousands stored in databases available to analysts.

But what happens when a fingerprint doesn’t provide a match and we have come across “chemical X”?

That brings us back to the original baggy of powder.

Patrick Yates, a PhD candidate from the Australian National University’s Research School of Chemistry, ran the sample through the first piece of equipment, the Fourier transform infrared (FTIR) spectrometer – a workhorse of many drug-checking programs around the world.
FTIR works quickly and reliably – even at a bush doof – as long as an electricity supply is available. It shines a laser on the sample, and the “reflection” (a measure of how the drug shakes and wiggles) is captured and compared to a database of more than 30,000 chemicals.

Patrick’s analysis didn’t confirm a ketamine match, but suggested it might be a relatively new ketamine analogue called 2-fluorodeschloroketamine (2-FDCK). However, Patrick’s trained intuition left him doubtful.

PhD student Cassidy Whitefield then turned to an instrument known as ultra-high performance liquid chromatography with photodiode array (UPLC-PDA), humming away in the corner at CanTEST. She ran lab-based standards through it, calibrating the machine to the ten most common drugs we see, including ketamine.

Chemical X had to “run a race” against a known sample, comparing it to already known compounds. The UPLC-PDA test takes about four minutes to run.

While the sample appeared similar to the ketamine standard, Cassie’s trained eye saw something was off. The rate at which chemical X ran its race (known as the retention time) was similar, but its absorption of ultraviolet radiation was off.

Whatever was there was real, quite pure, and neither ketamine nor 2-FDCK.

When in doubt, run more tests​

Ketamine is both an invaluable agent in the emergency and pre-hospital environment, and part of an emerging group of illicit drugs known as arylcyclohexamines.

In consultation with ANU chemistry professor Mal McLeod, the CanTEST team arrived at chemical X being “ketamine-like”.

The person who brought it in was advised the substance was not ketamine, and its identity could not be ascertained – our band of peer workers advised extreme caution in using it.

But that was not the end of the story for analytical chemists – the full inquisition was just beginning.

Next up, chemical X was subjected to a method called gas chromatography–mass spectrometry (GC-MS), meaning the sample was made to “run another race”, and was then smashed into pieces to further fingerprint it.

The GC-MS data correlated closely with a ketamine derivative known as fluorexetamine, but the presence of an isomer – two compounds with the same molecular formula but arranged differently – could not be ruled out.

It was time to bring out the big guns: a nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometer is a chemist’s Book of Runes. Answers can be found, but only by those few who can speak the language well.

Eventually, after a series of multi-dimensional tests, the team figured out there were four hydrogens next to each other around the aromatic ring, meaning it could not be fluorexetamine.

Chemical X could only be something called 2’-fluoro-2-oxo-phenylcyclohexylethylamine. And they had never seen this compound before.

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anonymous image hosting & pastebin

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From chemical X to ‘CanKet’​

It’s hard to emphasise what a phenomenal piece of work this was. We contacted our offsiders at the UN Office of Drug Control, the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, as well as several well-positioned researchers in this space from around the world. None had seen the compound before.

Our colleagues at the ACT Government Analytical Laboratory wrote to their international peers; a global forum of forensic and analytical chemists reviewed their locally acquired data and provided information that supported our findings.

We have since found a single further report out of China from a forensically obtained analytical sample, where it was described by another name (2F-NENDCK). As 2’-fluoro-2-oxo-phenylcyclohexylethylamine is a bit of a mouthful, our team has taken to calling it CanKet, as in “Canberra ketamine”.

After this feat of chemical analysis, we are now able to identify CanKet with impunity. We still don’t know its full effects, but thanks to understanding its chemical composition, we have a better idea of what we’re dealing with.

YET GYTD and UVIC miss it? These are the peeps we need on our side...


The discovery of Canberra Ketamine was briefly quite an interesting mystery, it seemed like a dissociative had been invented solely to satisfy our sparsely populated island. Turns out someone was just buying a bunch of "FXE" and distributing it as K (Real K was hard to find then and cost $200+/g so it made financial sense to sell RC's. Tiletamine was also common).

It was a matter of everyone including drugsdata taking the manufacturers word at face value. Not many people seem to be aware of this, the only post I've seen discussing how FXE never actually existed had like .

 

[vash445]

The second option is
The College of Chemistry Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (CoC-NMR) Facility's resources are available for hands-on use to all members of the UC Berkeley and LBNL. The CoC-NMR Facility is also open for collaborations with our external partners from non-affiliated academic institutions and industry. The Facility is located in D11 Latimer Hall and is available for use 24 hours a day, year round. For complete information please visit the NMR Facility website(link is external).plays nice and anyone as a student can run anything if they want... they just need to be trained how to use it.

As such MAYBE other peoples university labs are open for NMR maybe someone knows someone going to Berkley or similar who knows

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

yeah, I think we do know what it is now

Fuckin gold! Hats off to you Mr.Fiend.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

The age old debate.

One constant i notice is the clear mdma is usually lacking. Whereas brown sugar or cola is usually better.

That's strange, because I've always found the opposite to be true. Though the best crystal I've had was a light salmon colour.

 

[AlsoTapered]

PMK is quite clearly listed as a legally controlled precursor chemical.

It's glycidate salts and esters are in something of a legal grey area - the Chinese can produce and distribute it without legal issue.

Unlike most precursors, it isn't complex to make and unlike some other 'grey market' precursors like the bisulfite abduct of PMK, it isn't made from PMK. It's simply the most expedient precursor.

I liked MDMA but I've tried other compounds that were better and whose immediate precursors are not legally controlled BUT it's likely to be slightly more costly per dose and most certainly requires some felicity in the art of organic chemistry as a mistake WILL be deadly.

In fact, I think the most obvious one is totally legal in China and legal in most nations. Someone who has the resources to set up a contract for the Chinese to make it would make a lot of money. The thing is, you really want to avoid a Chinese supplier who realizes what they are making or the price will go up vastly.

I do not credit the people prepared to sit in clandestine labs day in day out as being especially skilled. They WILL get caught, They are like reagents - they are used and the cost of their use goes into the dealer's calculations.

 

[vash445]

PMK is quite clearly listed as a legally controlled precursor chemical.

It's glycidate salts and esters are in something of a legal grey area - the Chinese can produce and distribute it without legal issue.

Unlike most precursors, it isn't complex to make and unlike some other 'grey market' precursors like the bisulfite abduct of PMK, it isn't made from PMK. It's simply the most expedient precursor.

I liked MDMA but I've tried other compounds that were better and whose immediate precursors are not legally controlled BUT it's likely to be slightly more costly per dose and most certainly requires some felicity in the art of organic chemistry as a mistake WILL be deadly.

In fact, I think the most obvious one is totally legal in China and legal in most nations. Someone who has the resources to set up a contract for the Chinese to make it would make a lot of money. The thing is, you really want to avoid a Chinese supplier who realizes what they are making or the price will go up vastly.

I do not credit the people prepared to sit in clandestine labs day in day out as being especially skilled. They WILL get caught, They are like reagents - they are used and the cost of their use goes into the dealer's calculations.

I mean... it seems Methyl 3-oxo-2-(3,4- methylenedioxyphenyl)butanoate cas 1369021-80-6 has been making rounds in 2021/2022..

This is the MD cousin of MAPA and escaped regulations for a few years